Thanks girls for your reply , I will update after PM add in my routine

Uneza

Cool.  Keep us posyed if you will.  I think some of the other herbs will really help optimize the PM effects

Off the Top, drop the saw palametto and fennel.

Any weak estrogen will compete with the PM at the receptor sites. Saw palametto is believed to hinder breast growth.

I personally had more sucess in just using PM and WP.  As those are mail order herbs, i also found reshi ( as an AA ) and red clover ( as an estrogen ) to be good replacements.

If you think she should stay away from the weak estrogens, why recommend red clover?  Its a pretty weak estrogen too...

Yes, in comparison to PM it is. I wouldnt sugest taking it with PM, but taking it when your between PM shipments. If memory serves me right, red clover is the next highest estrogenic herb.

Thanks girls for your reply , I will update after PM add in my routine

Uneza

Cool.  Keep us posyed if you will.  I think some of the other herbs will really help optimize the PM effects

Off the Top, drop the saw palametto and fennel.

Any weak estrogen will compete with the PM at the receptor sites. Saw palametto is believed to hinder breast growth.

I personally had more sucess in just using PM and WP.  As those are mail order herbs, i also found reshi ( as an AA ) and red clover ( as an estrogen ) to be good replacements.

Hi Jannet,

Thanks for your reply on this topic , can you please explain WP ? what is this ? and what does it mean by AA ?

Regards,
Uneza

WP = White Peony
AA  = Antiandrogen

Thanks girls for your reply , I will update after PM add in my routine

Uneza

Cool.  Keep us posyed if you will.  I think some of the other herbs will really help optimize the PM effects

Off the Top, drop the saw palametto and fennel.

Any weak estrogen will compete with the PM at the receptor sites. Saw palametto is believed to hinder breast growth.

I personally had more sucess in just using PM and WP.  As those are mail order herbs, i also found reshi ( as an AA ) and red clover ( as an estrogen ) to be good replacements.

If you think she should stay away from the weak estrogens, why recommend red clover?  Its a pretty weak estrogen too...

Yes, in comparison to PM it is. I wouldnt sugest taking it with PM, but taking it when your between PM shipments. If memory serves me right, red clover is the next highest estrogenic herb.

I think in that case flaxseed is stronger

In my opinion I would remove the evenimg primrose oil, saw palmetto, black cohosh, and wild yam.  I would add extra vitamin C, an amino acid supplement too, or at least gelatin daily.  Also breast massage and maybe quit the maca...

Hi Uneza, 

I'm not a fan of proprietary blends (I see conflict in mixed blends that counteract with NBE). Look into reishi extract and white peony extract (in place of saw palmetto and maca). The massage oils looks good, and breast massage has a big impact on the shape and foundation of the breasts. May I ask have you considered  hrt?.

Hi Lotus

Thanks for your reply , no I dont want to go for HRT , I want to take effect with the natural herbs so thats why I have started natural herbs so you think SP and Maca will have to be replace those you have mentioned above ?

Regards
Uneza

Uneza, 

Most phytoestrogens stimulate ER-b (estrogen receptor beta).....which is ok because ER-beta helps prevent (protect) against breast cancer. ER-alpha (estrogen receptor alpha) promotes linear breast growth, however, too much ER-a increases the chances (proliferation) of breast growth. So, no one should take 10-19 pills PM....ever.

Hops, red clover, fenugreek and PM are pro ER-a, and thus you choose only one for each per cycle (30 days). Finding an anti-androgen(s) that inhibits both types of 5 Alpha Reductase is imporatant. Reishi extract inhibits type I & type II @ 80-90%, saw palmetto inhibits type I & II but @ 32%. Testosterone takes multiple pathways...so there's a need to cut these pathways off before turning into DHT...which DHT destroys breast growth. I like reishi, green tea and fresh lemons wedges (in water) for taking down these pathways. Use SP if you already purchased it....3x per day. Maca has an indirect way of increasing testosterone.....via DHEA, it is in my opinion it happens through the adrenals (why it increases libidos in both men & women. For genetic males wanting breasts T needs to be from 0 ng/dL to 100 ng/mL (testosterone) for more female looking breasts, above 100 ng/dL and up to 250 ng/dL is possible but less likely to represent feminine breasts, rather moobs are more likely to be the outcome. 

Sertoli cells synthesize estradiol 17b from testosterone, and when testosterone is introduced with FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) it produces a 12 fold increase in E2 synthesis. And is markedly increased when cAMP (Cyclic adenosine monophosphate) is also added.  Estrogen also triggers rapid activation of classical second messengers (cAMP, calcium, and inositol triphosphate). On another note, FSH and cAMP produce a 30 fold increase in aromatase, quite possibly making it the strongest aromatase.  


Inhibit LH (luteinizing hormone) using black cohosh (nbe) Goserelin (pharma) 

Stimulate FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) E2 or red clover, *(essential fatty acids)
 
Inhibit DHT in the liver/prostate. (reishi inhibits serum DHT @ 80%) dutas @93%, finasteride @70% and saw palmetto inhibits DHT @ 32% (combo's possible). 

Inhibit adrenal DHT (calmodulin -via the calcium/calmodulin/CaMK pathway) (spiro or licorice root)

Urology. 2001 May;57(5):999-1005. Related Articles, Links  
Tissue effects of saw palmetto and finasteride: use of biopsy cores for in situ quantification of prostatic androgens.

Marks LS, Hess DL, Dorey FJ, Luz Macairan M, Cruz Santos PB, Tyler VE.
Urological Sciences Research Foundation, Culver City, California, USA.

OBJECTIVES: To determine the effects of a saw palmetto herbal blend (SPHB) compared with finasteride on prostatic tissue androgen levels and to evaluate needle biopsies as a source of tissue for such determinations. METHODS: Prostate levels of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were measured on 5 to 10-mg biopsy specimens (18-gauge needle cores) in three groups of men with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia: 15 men receiving chronic finasteride therapy versus 7 untreated controls; 4 men undergoing prostate adenomectomy to determine sampling variability (10 specimens each); and 40 men participating in a 6-month randomized trial of SPHB versus placebo, before and after treatment. RESULTS: Prostatic tissue DHT levels were found to be several times higher than the levels of testosterone (5.01 versus 1.51 ng/g), that ratio becoming reversed (1.05 versus 3.63 ng/g) with chronic finasteride therapy. The finasteride effect was statistically significant for both androgens (P <0.01), and little overlap of individual values between finasteride-treated and control patients was seen. In the randomized trial, tissue DHT levels were reduced by 32% from 6.49 to 4.40 ng/g in the SPHB group (P <0.005), with no significant change in the placebo group. CONCLUSIONS: For control versus finasteride-treated men, the tissue androgen values obtained with needle biopsy specimens were similar-both for absolute values and the percentage of change-to those previously reported using surgically excised volumes of prostatic tissue. The quantification of prostatic androgens by assay of needle biopsies is thus feasible and offers the possibility of serial studies in individual patients. The SPHB-induced suppression of prostatic DHT levels, modest but significant in a randomized trial, lends an element of support to the hypothesis that inhibition of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase is a mechanism of action of this substance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11337315

Hi Uneza, 

I'm not a fan of proprietary blends (I see conflict in mixed blends that counteract with NBE). Look into reishi extract and white peony extract (in place of saw palmetto and maca). The massage oils looks good, and breast massage has a big impact on the shape and foundation of the breasts. May I ask have you considered  hrt?.

Hi Lotus

Thanks for your reply , no I dont want to go for HRT , I want to take effect with the natural herbs so thats why I have started natural herbs so you think SP and Maca will have to be replace those you have mentioned above ?

Regards
Uneza

Uneza, 

Most phytoestrogens stimulate ER-b (estrogen receptor beta).....which is ok because ER-beta helps prevent (protect) against breast cancer. ER-alpha (estrogen receptor alpha) promotes linear breast growth, however, too much ER-a increases the chances (proliferation) of breast growth. So, no one should take 10-19 pills PM....ever.

Hops, red clover, fenugreek and PM are pro ER-a, and thus you choose only one for each per cycle (30 days). Finding an anti-androgen(s) that inhibits both types of 5 Alpha Reductase is imporatant. Reishi extract inhibits type I & type II @ 80-90%, saw palmetto inhibits type I & II but @ 32%. Testosterone takes multiple pathways...so there's a need to cut these pathways off before turning into DHT...which DHT destroys breast growth. I like reishi, green tea and fresh lemons wedges (in water) for taking down these pathways. Use SP if you already purchased it....3x per day. Maca has an indirect way of increasing testosterone.....via DHEA, it is in my opinion it happens through the adrenals (why it increases libidos in both men & women. For genetic males wanting breasts T needs to be from 0 ng/dL to 100 ng/mL (testosterone) for more female looking breasts, above 100 ng/dL and up to 250 ng/dL is possible but less likely to represent feminine breasts, rather moobs are more likely to be the outcome. 

Sertoli cells synthesize estradiol 17b from testosterone, and when testosterone is introduced with FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) it produces a 12 fold increase in E2 synthesis. And is markedly increased when cAMP (Cyclic adenosine monophosphate) is also added.  Estrogen also triggers rapid activation of classical second messengers (cAMP, calcium, and inositol triphosphate). On another note, FSH and cAMP produce a 30 fold increase in aromatase, quite possibly making it the strongest aromatase.  


Inhibit LH (luteinizing hormone) using black cohosh (nbe) Goserelin (pharma) 

Stimulate FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) E2 or red clover, *(essential fatty acids)
 
Inhibit DHT in the liver/prostate. (reishi inhibits serum DHT @ 80%) dutas @93%, finasteride @70% and saw palmetto inhibits DHT @ 32% (combo's possible). 

Inhibit adrenal DHT (calmodulin -via the calcium/calmodulin/CaMK pathway) (spiro or licorice root)

Urology. 2001 May;57(5):999-1005. Related Articles, Links  
Tissue effects of saw palmetto and finasteride: use of biopsy cores for in situ quantification of prostatic androgens.

Marks LS, Hess DL, Dorey FJ, Luz Macairan M, Cruz Santos PB, Tyler VE.
Urological Sciences Research Foundation, Culver City, California, USA.

OBJECTIVES: To determine the effects of a saw palmetto herbal blend (SPHB) compared with finasteride on prostatic tissue androgen levels and to evaluate needle biopsies as a source of tissue for such determinations. METHODS: Prostate levels of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were measured on 5 to 10-mg biopsy specimens (18-gauge needle cores) in three groups of men with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia: 15 men receiving chronic finasteride therapy versus 7 untreated controls; 4 men undergoing prostate adenomectomy to determine sampling variability (10 specimens each); and 40 men participating in a 6-month randomized trial of SPHB versus placebo, before and after treatment. RESULTS: Prostatic tissue DHT levels were found to be several times higher than the levels of testosterone (5.01 versus 1.51 ng/g), that ratio becoming reversed (1.05 versus 3.63 ng/g) with chronic finasteride therapy. The finasteride effect was statistically significant for both androgens (P <0.01), and little overlap of individual values between finasteride-treated and control patients was seen. In the randomized trial, tissue DHT levels were reduced by 32% from 6.49 to 4.40 ng/g in the SPHB group (P <0.005), with no significant change in the placebo group. CONCLUSIONS: For control versus finasteride-treated men, the tissue androgen values obtained with needle biopsy specimens were similar-both for absolute values and the percentage of change-to those previously reported using surgically excised volumes of prostatic tissue. The quantification of prostatic androgens by assay of needle biopsies is thus feasible and offers the possibility of serial studies in individual patients. The SPHB-induced suppression of prostatic DHT levels, modest but significant in a randomized trial, lends an element of support to the hypothesis that inhibition of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase is a mechanism of action of this substance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11337315

Hi Lotus,

Can u please explain your statement regarding on '

Hops, red clover, fenugreek and PM are pro ER-a, and thus you choose only one for each per cycle (30 days)'

Hi Girls,

Thanks for all your replies and now my new routine has been altered as per your guidance and suggestions

Saw Palmetto 250 mg (1000mg per day)
Breastone Capsules 4 Cap/day(2 morning and 2 night) 
                ( Dong quai , Licorice , Motherwort , Wild yam , Black Cohosh , Red Raspberry , Chasteberry root , Blessed Thistle , hops , dandelion , damiana ,fenugreek , fennel)

Daily breast massage include oil mixture of (5 drops of orange essential oil , lavender , olive, almond,jasmine ,pumkin seed oils , linseed(flax seed) , aloe vera , garlic , neem , coconut  , fenugreek)

Chamomile and green tea

Newly Added Coca Butter and Shea Butter for massage

Kindly let me know if any alteration required , I have ordered PM as well

regards,
Uneza

Hi Uneza, 

I'm not a fan of proprietary blends (I see conflict in mixed blends that counteract with NBE). Look into reishi extract and white peony extract (in place of saw palmetto and maca). The massage oils looks good, and breast massage has a big impact on the shape and foundation of the breasts. May I ask have you considered  hrt?.

Hi Lotus

Thanks for your reply , no I dont want to go for HRT , I want to take effect with the natural herbs so thats why I have started natural herbs so you think SP and Maca will have to be replace those you have mentioned above ?

Regards
Uneza

Uneza, 

Most phytoestrogens stimulate ER-b (estrogen receptor beta).....which is ok because ER-beta helps prevent (protect) against breast cancer. ER-alpha (estrogen receptor alpha) promotes linear breast growth, however, too much ER-a increases the chances (proliferation) of breast growth. So, no one should take 10-19 pills PM....ever.

Hops, red clover, fenugreek and PM are pro ER-a, and thus you choose only one for each per cycle (30 days). Finding an anti-androgen(s) that inhibits both types of 5 Alpha Reductase is imporatant. Reishi extract inhibits type I & type II @ 80-90%, saw palmetto inhibits type I & II but @ 32%. Testosterone takes multiple pathways...so there's a need to cut these pathways off before turning into DHT...which DHT destroys breast growth. I like reishi, green tea and fresh lemons wedges (in water) for taking down these pathways. Use SP if you already purchased it....3x per day. Maca has an indirect way of increasing testosterone.....via DHEA, it is in my opinion it happens through the adrenals (why it increases libidos in both men & women. For genetic males wanting breasts T needs to be from 0 ng/dL to 100 ng/mL (testosterone) for more female looking breasts, above 100 ng/dL and up to 250 ng/dL is possible but less likely to represent feminine breasts, rather moobs are more likely to be the outcome. 

Sertoli cells synthesize estradiol 17b from testosterone, and when testosterone is introduced with FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) it produces a 12 fold increase in E2 synthesis. And is markedly increased when cAMP (Cyclic adenosine monophosphate) is also added.  Estrogen also triggers rapid activation of classical second messengers (cAMP, calcium, and inositol triphosphate). On another note, FSH and cAMP produce a 30 fold increase in aromatase, quite possibly making it the strongest aromatase.  


Inhibit LH (luteinizing hormone) using black cohosh (nbe) Goserelin (pharma) 

Stimulate FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) E2 or red clover, *(essential fatty acids)
 
Inhibit DHT in the liver/prostate. (reishi inhibits serum DHT @ 80%) dutas @93%, finasteride @70% and saw palmetto inhibits DHT @ 32% (combo's possible). 

Inhibit adrenal DHT (calmodulin -via the calcium/calmodulin/CaMK pathway) (spiro or licorice root)

Urology. 2001 May;57(5):999-1005. Related Articles, Links  
Tissue effects of saw palmetto and finasteride: use of biopsy cores for in situ quantification of prostatic androgens.

Marks LS, Hess DL, Dorey FJ, Luz Macairan M, Cruz Santos PB, Tyler VE.
Urological Sciences Research Foundation, Culver City, California, USA.

OBJECTIVES: To determine the effects of a saw palmetto herbal blend (SPHB) compared with finasteride on prostatic tissue androgen levels and to evaluate needle biopsies as a source of tissue for such determinations. METHODS: Prostate levels of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were measured on 5 to 10-mg biopsy specimens (18-gauge needle cores) in three groups of men with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia: 15 men receiving chronic finasteride therapy versus 7 untreated controls; 4 men undergoing prostate adenomectomy to determine sampling variability (10 specimens each); and 40 men participating in a 6-month randomized trial of SPHB versus placebo, before and after treatment. RESULTS: Prostatic tissue DHT levels were found to be several times higher than the levels of testosterone (5.01 versus 1.51 ng/g), that ratio becoming reversed (1.05 versus 3.63 ng/g) with chronic finasteride therapy. The finasteride effect was statistically significant for both androgens (P <0.01), and little overlap of individual values between finasteride-treated and control patients was seen. In the randomized trial, tissue DHT levels were reduced by 32% from 6.49 to 4.40 ng/g in the SPHB group (P <0.005), with no significant change in the placebo group. CONCLUSIONS: For control versus finasteride-treated men, the tissue androgen values obtained with needle biopsy specimens were similar-both for absolute values and the percentage of change-to those previously reported using surgically excised volumes of prostatic tissue. The quantification of prostatic androgens by assay of needle biopsies is thus feasible and offers the possibility of serial studies in individual patients. The SPHB-induced suppression of prostatic DHT levels, modest but significant in a randomized trial, lends an element of support to the hypothesis that inhibition of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase is a mechanism of action of this substance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11337315

Hi Lotus,

Can u please explain your statement regarding on '

Hops, red clover, fenugreek and PM are pro ER-a, and thus you choose only one for each per cycle (30 days)'

Hi Girls,

Thanks for all your replies and now my new routine has been altered as per your guidance and suggestions

Saw Palmetto 250 mg (1000mg per day)
Breastone Capsules 4 Cap/day(2 morning and 2 night) 
                ( Dong quai , Licorice , Motherwort , Wild yam , Black Cohosh , Red Raspberry , Chasteberry root , Blessed Thistle , hops , dandelion , damiana ,fenugreek , fennel)

Daily breast massage include oil mixture of (5 drops of orange essential oil , lavender , olive, almond,jasmine ,pumkin seed oils , linseed(flax seed) , aloe vera , garlic , neem , coconut  , fenugreek)

Chamomile and green tea

Newly Added Coca Butter and Shea Butter for massage

Kindly let me know if any alteration required , I have ordered PM as well

regards,
Uneza

it is my understanding that pueraria mirifica stimulates estrogen receptor beta with a greater affinity than the alpha site.  but honestly, moreso than just looking at each plant, one would have to consider each estrogen receptor agonist chemical in each plant and it's concentrations and affinities to even begin to paint a more full picture.  For example I think PM has well over seven or eight known estrogen receptor agonist chemicals within it, deoxymiroestrol being the strongest

Hi Uneza, 

I'm not a fan of proprietary blends (I see conflict in mixed blends that counteract with NBE). Look into reishi extract and white peony extract (in place of saw palmetto and maca). The massage oils looks good, and breast massage has a big impact on the shape and foundation of the breasts. May I ask have you considered  hrt?.

Hi Lotus

Thanks for your reply , no I dont want to go for HRT , I want to take effect with the natural herbs so thats why I have started natural herbs so you think SP and Maca will have to be replace those you have mentioned above ?

Regards
Uneza

Uneza, 

Most phytoestrogens stimulate ER-b (estrogen receptor beta).....which is ok because ER-beta helps prevent (protect) against breast cancer. ER-alpha (estrogen receptor alpha) promotes linear breast growth, however, too much ER-a increases the chances (proliferation) of breast growth. So, no one should take 10-19 pills PM....ever.

Hops, red clover, fenugreek and PM are pro ER-a, and thus you choose only one for each per cycle (30 days). Finding an anti-androgen(s) that inhibits both types of 5 Alpha Reductase is imporatant. Reishi extract inhibits type I & type II @ 80-90%, saw palmetto inhibits type I & II but @ 32%. Testosterone takes multiple pathways...so there's a need to cut these pathways off before turning into DHT...which DHT destroys breast growth. I like reishi, green tea and fresh lemons wedges (in water) for taking down these pathways. Use SP if you already purchased it....3x per day. Maca has an indirect way of increasing testosterone.....via DHEA, it is in my opinion it happens through the adrenals (why it increases libidos in both men & women. For genetic males wanting breasts T needs to be from 0 ng/dL to 100 ng/mL (testosterone) for more female looking breasts, above 100 ng/dL and up to 250 ng/dL is possible but less likely to represent feminine breasts, rather moobs are more likely to be the outcome. 

Sertoli cells synthesize estradiol 17b from testosterone, and when testosterone is introduced with FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) it produces a 12 fold increase in E2 synthesis. And is markedly increased when cAMP (Cyclic adenosine monophosphate) is also added.  Estrogen also triggers rapid activation of classical second messengers (cAMP, calcium, and inositol triphosphate). On another note, FSH and cAMP produce a 30 fold increase in aromatase, quite possibly making it the strongest aromatase.  


Inhibit LH (luteinizing hormone) using black cohosh (nbe) Goserelin (pharma) 

Stimulate FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) E2 or red clover, *(essential fatty acids)
 
Inhibit DHT in the liver/prostate. (reishi inhibits serum DHT @ 80%) dutas @93%, finasteride @70% and saw palmetto inhibits DHT @ 32% (combo's possible). 

Inhibit adrenal DHT (calmodulin -via the calcium/calmodulin/CaMK pathway) (spiro or licorice root)

Urology. 2001 May;57(5):999-1005. Related Articles, Links  
Tissue effects of saw palmetto and finasteride: use of biopsy cores for in situ quantification of prostatic androgens.

Marks LS, Hess DL, Dorey FJ, Luz Macairan M, Cruz Santos PB, Tyler VE.
Urological Sciences Research Foundation, Culver City, California, USA.

OBJECTIVES: To determine the effects of a saw palmetto herbal blend (SPHB) compared with finasteride on prostatic tissue androgen levels and to evaluate needle biopsies as a source of tissue for such determinations. METHODS: Prostate levels of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were measured on 5 to 10-mg biopsy specimens (18-gauge needle cores) in three groups of men with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia: 15 men receiving chronic finasteride therapy versus 7 untreated controls; 4 men undergoing prostate adenomectomy to determine sampling variability (10 specimens each); and 40 men participating in a 6-month randomized trial of SPHB versus placebo, before and after treatment. RESULTS: Prostatic tissue DHT levels were found to be several times higher than the levels of testosterone (5.01 versus 1.51 ng/g), that ratio becoming reversed (1.05 versus 3.63 ng/g) with chronic finasteride therapy. The finasteride effect was statistically significant for both androgens (P <0.01), and little overlap of individual values between finasteride-treated and control patients was seen. In the randomized trial, tissue DHT levels were reduced by 32% from 6.49 to 4.40 ng/g in the SPHB group (P <0.005), with no significant change in the placebo group. CONCLUSIONS: For control versus finasteride-treated men, the tissue androgen values obtained with needle biopsy specimens were similar-both for absolute values and the percentage of change-to those previously reported using surgically excised volumes of prostatic tissue. The quantification of prostatic androgens by assay of needle biopsies is thus feasible and offers the possibility of serial studies in individual patients. The SPHB-induced suppression of prostatic DHT levels, modest but significant in a randomized trial, lends an element of support to the hypothesis that inhibition of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase is a mechanism of action of this substance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11337315

Hi Lotus,

Can u please explain your statement regarding on '

Hops, red clover, fenugreek and PM are pro ER-a, and thus you choose only one for each per cycle (30 days)'

Hi Girls,

Thanks for all your replies and now my new routine has been altered as per your guidance and suggestions

Saw Palmetto 250 mg (1000mg per day)
Breastone Capsules 4 Cap/day(2 morning and 2 night) 
                ( Dong quai , Licorice , Motherwort , Wild yam , Black Cohosh , Red Raspberry , Chasteberry root , Blessed Thistle , hops , dandelion , damiana ,fenugreek , fennel)

Daily breast massage include oil mixture of (5 drops of orange essential oil , lavender , olive, almond,jasmine ,pumkin seed oils , linseed(flax seed) , aloe vera , garlic , neem , coconut  , fenugreek)

Chamomile and green tea

Newly Added Coca Butter and Shea Butter for massage

Kindly let me know if any alteration required , I have ordered PM as well

regards,
Uneza

it is my understanding that pueraria mirifica stimulates estrogen receptor beta with a greater affinity than the alpha site.  but honestly, moreso than just looking at each plant, one would have to consider each estrogen receptor agonist chemical in each plant and it's concentrations and affinities to even begin to paint a more full picture.  For example I think PM has well over seven or eight known estrogen receptor agonist chemicals within it, deoxymiroestrol being the strongest

High level of estrogen will defeat the testosterone level as well 

regards,
Uneza

Hi Uneza, 

I'm not a fan of proprietary blends (I see conflict in mixed blends that counteract with NBE). Look into reishi extract and white peony extract (in place of saw palmetto and maca). The massage oils looks good, and breast massage has a big impact on the shape and foundation of the breasts. May I ask have you considered  hrt?.

Hi Lotus

Thanks for your reply , no I dont want to go for HRT , I want to take effect with the natural herbs so thats why I have started natural herbs so you think SP and Maca will have to be replace those you have mentioned above ?

Regards
Uneza

Uneza, 

Most phytoestrogens stimulate ER-b (estrogen receptor beta).....which is ok because ER-beta helps prevent (protect) against breast cancer. ER-alpha (estrogen receptor alpha) promotes linear breast growth, however, too much ER-a increases the chances (proliferation) of breast growth. So, no one should take 10-19 pills PM....ever.

Hops, red clover, fenugreek and PM are pro ER-a, and thus you choose only one for each per cycle (30 days). Finding an anti-androgen(s) that inhibits both types of 5 Alpha Reductase is imporatant. Reishi extract inhibits type I & type II @ 80-90%, saw palmetto inhibits type I & II but @ 32%. Testosterone takes multiple pathways...so there's a need to cut these pathways off before turning into DHT...which DHT destroys breast growth. I like reishi, green tea and fresh lemons wedges (in water) for taking down these pathways. Use SP if you already purchased it....3x per day. Maca has an indirect way of increasing testosterone.....via DHEA, it is in my opinion it happens through the adrenals (why it increases libidos in both men & women. For genetic males wanting breasts T needs to be from 0 ng/dL to 100 ng/mL (testosterone) for more female looking breasts, above 100 ng/dL and up to 250 ng/dL is possible but less likely to represent feminine breasts, rather moobs are more likely to be the outcome. 

Sertoli cells synthesize estradiol 17b from testosterone, and when testosterone is introduced with FSH (Follicle-stimulating hormone) it produces a 12 fold increase in E2 synthesis. And is markedly increased when cAMP (Cyclic adenosine monophosphate) is also added.  Estrogen also triggers rapid activation of classical second messengers (cAMP, calcium, and inositol triphosphate). On another note, FSH and cAMP produce a 30 fold increase in aromatase, quite possibly making it the strongest aromatase.  


Inhibit LH (luteinizing hormone) using black cohosh (nbe) Goserelin (pharma) 

Stimulate FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) E2 or red clover, *(essential fatty acids)
 
Inhibit DHT in the liver/prostate. (reishi inhibits serum DHT @ 80%) dutas @93%, finasteride @70% and saw palmetto inhibits DHT @ 32% (combo's possible). 

Inhibit adrenal DHT (calmodulin -via the calcium/calmodulin/CaMK pathway) (spiro or licorice root)

Urology. 2001 May;57(5):999-1005. Related Articles, Links  
Tissue effects of saw palmetto and finasteride: use of biopsy cores for in situ quantification of prostatic androgens.

Marks LS, Hess DL, Dorey FJ, Luz Macairan M, Cruz Santos PB, Tyler VE.
Urological Sciences Research Foundation, Culver City, California, USA.

OBJECTIVES: To determine the effects of a saw palmetto herbal blend (SPHB) compared with finasteride on prostatic tissue androgen levels and to evaluate needle biopsies as a source of tissue for such determinations. METHODS: Prostate levels of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were measured on 5 to 10-mg biopsy specimens (18-gauge needle cores) in three groups of men with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia: 15 men receiving chronic finasteride therapy versus 7 untreated controls; 4 men undergoing prostate adenomectomy to determine sampling variability (10 specimens each); and 40 men participating in a 6-month randomized trial of SPHB versus placebo, before and after treatment. RESULTS: Prostatic tissue DHT levels were found to be several times higher than the levels of testosterone (5.01 versus 1.51 ng/g), that ratio becoming reversed (1.05 versus 3.63 ng/g) with chronic finasteride therapy. The finasteride effect was statistically significant for both androgens (P <0.01), and little overlap of individual values between finasteride-treated and control patients was seen. In the randomized trial, tissue DHT levels were reduced by 32% from 6.49 to 4.40 ng/g in the SPHB group (P <0.005), with no significant change in the placebo group. CONCLUSIONS: For control versus finasteride-treated men, the tissue androgen values obtained with needle biopsy specimens were similar-both for absolute values and the percentage of change-to those previously reported using surgically excised volumes of prostatic tissue. The quantification of prostatic androgens by assay of needle biopsies is thus feasible and offers the possibility of serial studies in individual patients. The SPHB-induced suppression of prostatic DHT levels, modest but significant in a randomized trial, lends an element of support to the hypothesis that inhibition of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase is a mechanism of action of this substance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11337315

Hi Girls,

Finally, I got my order of PM 500mg so please guide how i will start and how much / day and or it will be start with SP but how much and any other herbs can be use with PM ?

PM=Pureria Mirafica
SP=Saw Palmetto

Regards,
Uneza