[Jennipher]

Hi All, 

I am posting this because I'm sure many of us (above 40) may be treated for high cholesterol with Atorvastatin (Lipitor). 
Wasn't sure where to put it, so General seemed the safest!

My doc recently put me on atorvastatin for cholesterol. I've restarted PM after a lengthy hiatus, and wanted to see what, if any, negative interactions there may be between the two. Both being synthesized in the liver (Thank you Lotus!) I was concerned there could be some issues. 

A Google search revealed quite a bit of information, and I zeroed in on this one:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3105754/

You scientific types (Lotus?) may glean much more from the article than I did, but reading the Results synopsis (yes, I always opted for the Cliffs Notes in school!) it appears there is no negative affect:

Results

Among 86 placebo- and 90 estradiol-treated subjects with baseline and on-trial hormone measurements, no significant differences were observed between the statin-free and statin-treated groups in mean changes from baseline to on-trial levels in any of the androgens or estrogens, whether or not the postmenopausal women were treated with estrogen.

That's the GOOD news! The BETTER news is that Atorvastatin may actually INCREASE  Estrogen:

https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/...essional=1

estradiol ↔ atorvastatin
Applies to:drospirenone/estradiol and Lipitor (atorvastatin)

Coadministration with atorvastatin may increase the plasma concentrations of estrogens and progestins. The exact mechanism of interaction is unknown but may be related to competitive inhibition of CYP450 3A4, the isoenzyme responsible for the metabolism of atorvastatin, estrogens, some (if not all) progestins, and other steroids. According to product labeling, atorvastatin increased the area under the plasma concentration-time curve (AUC) of ethinyl estradiol by 20% and that of norethindrone by 30%. The clinical significance of these alterations is unknown but should be considered when selecting oral contraceptive and hormone replacement doses.

Soooo...   It looks to me like there can possibly be a bonus effect of increased E when taking astorvastatin. I'm a Business and Theology (don't even ask!) major, and have no idea what CYP450 3A4, the isoenzyme responsible for the metabolism of atorvastatin, estrogens, some (if not all) progestins, and other steroids means, but it seems to be if it is inhibited and E increases, it must be a good thing... yes, I studied logic, too! LOL 

Looking forward to hearing what Lotus and some of you other science inclined geeks (that's not a bad thing!) have to say.

AS ALWAYS, IF YOU ARE ON HT OR HRT AND HAVE ISSUES OR CONCERNS CONSULT YOUR PHYSICIAN!!!

Cheers.
Jenn

[The First Aria]

I think Atorvastatin helps with real Estrogen, but not sure about Phyto's.

[Jennipher]

I think Atorvastatin helps with real Estrogen, but not sure about Phyto's.

Aria, may be true. Howsomeever, several of the articles listed estradiol also, which if I am not mistaken is what PM provides.

And upon further research (my inner nerd came out),
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23448151
Tells us that Astorvastatin also reduces T:

CONCLUSIONS: 

Statins may partially operate by lowering testosterone. Whether this is a detrimental side effect or mode of action warrants investigation given the potential implications for drug development and prevention of non-communicable chronic diseases. See commentary article here http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/58.

So, combined I see a pretty good bonus effect for feminization/breast development. Any thoughts from the scientists out there?

As I see it, from the statin and PM combo I get lower cholesterol and bigger breasts! 
Cheers,
Jenn

[The First Aria]

Hmmmm, estradiol ???  I am not sure that's a phyto.  But, since most companies that produce PM products do not run tests or publish results if they have.... maybe you have seen something I haven''t in the 4 years I was on phyto's including the last 2 on PM.

[Jennipher]

Hmmmm, estradiol ???  I am not sure that's a phyto.  But, since most companies that produce PM products do not run tests or publish results if they have.... maybe you have seen something I haven''t in the 4 years I was on phyto's including the last 2 on PM.

It’s not, but from what I remember reading, the structure of phytoestrogens (phyto=plant derived) in PM are very similar to 17b Estradiol, with the most dominant being miroestrol which is similar to the structure of estriol. So even though theyre plant based the synthesis should be the same based on structural similarity, ergo the biological effect of phyto Es on animals. The animal produced like human, equine, or BO are all just quantitatively stronger. 

There’s an NIH (Japan) study that’s pretty interesting but the data was way over my head!

[Jennipher]

My main point is astorvastatin is not contraindicated with PM and any affect on hormones looks to be a bonus!

[Lotus]

Inhibiting cytochrome CYP450 3A4 actually increases a higher bioavailability of certain drugs, thus...inducing the very same enzyme means it's not benefiting E. (St. John's wort is a good example inducing CYP-3A4). What we (aria and i) found out (3-4 years ago) is that statins inhibit T and benefits E.

Keep in mind, PM needs liver activation to synthesize dexoy & miroestriol, there's a high significance that an interconversion between E2(estradiol) & E1(estriol) are working under the hood..or...like a very active ping-pong game, needless to say PM acts more like estriol (less powerful) than E2, which as we know E2 is the highest feminizing hormone, but " free E2 " is technically the mother of all feminzing because it's bioactive to E receptors.

[Jennipher]

Inhibiting cytochrome CYP450 3A4 actually increases a higher bioavailability of certain drugs, thus...inducing the very same enzyme means it's not benefiting E. (St. John's wort is a good example inducing CYP-3A4). What we (aria and i) found out (3-4 years ago) is that statins inhibit T and benefits E.

Keep in mind, PM needs liver activation to synthesize dexoy & miroestriol, there's a high significance that an interconversion between E2(estradiol) & E1(estriol) are working under the hood..or...like a very active ping-pong game, needless to say PM acts more like estriol (less powerful) than E2, which as we know E2 is the highest feminizing hormone, but " free E2 " is technically the mother of all feminzing because it's bioactive to E receptors.

Thanks so much Lotus! I had hoped you’d jump in! That's good news for those of us on statins. Seems like a symbiotic relationship between PM and statins on lowering cholesterol and T and putting E to work! Win-Win!    

Question- with the impact of statins on T, are things like spearmint, Reishi and White Peony still needed in an NBE regimen, or is the statin (I’m on 40mg Lipitor daily) enough to lower T/inhibit conversion to DHT?