[The First Aria]

On this very board, I have seen many wild ideas.  The most prevalent being...... " More is better! "

Everyone , rather Herbal or HRT should Google this topic....  "transgender guidelines" .  It's easy enough to do, to help those who can not do so, here is a link to one that most bonafide Care Givers use.

https://www.wpath.org/publications/soc

The same Google search will also reveal the dosage rates of most HRT's.  But, I will post here the levels that most doctors believe...

Free Estrogen  100 -225
Free Testosterone   25 - 50

NEVER EVER has a doctor said more is better, and here is the reason.....   Too much Estrogen can be a great cancer risk.....  secondly, the body will convert extra Estrogens into our dreaded Testosterone and DHT....  Not good for feminization...

Now, we all know that Estrogenic Herbs, such as PM mimic Estrogen....  all be it only about 1/10th as strong....  But, it is estrogenic, why could it NOT be converted into our cursed T and DHT?   No reason in the world should we expect it not to be converted.

Soi you "gurls" who do 2500 mg, 3000 mg or higher......  you are actually slowing or negating your own progress.  But on top of that..  for some reason, PM steals or blocks the body's use of calcium.  But, no big deal right???  Not really a concern, unless you want to have early hip, knee replacement surgery..  Or just straight Osteoporosis...  But....  if that don't matter, and you don't want doctors to supervise...  Go ahead and self medicate...  Don't take my word for it.  Ask Lotus about his problems after O.D.'ing on BO  and other Herbs....  He has metabolism problems, bad back problems, knee and various other ills....

So keep eating up MEGA DOSES of PM, BO and such....  And I wish you good luck.  You may have D cup boobs, but is your overall health or quality of life not as worthy as boobs or your hind end??   

For God's Sake!!   Take a minute and think a minute.

[Katie]

Whilst I agree totally with your message as a whole, I have to disagree with this bit:

secondly, the body will convert extra Estrogens into our dreaded Testosterone and DHT....  Not good for feminization...

That`s simply not true, T can convert to E, but when it`s E, it`s the end of the road.
E will Never convert to T.

[VergeOfDiscovery]

Everyone should be cognizant of potential dangers.


And listen to your own body.

Another may be able to ingest more, but that may not be right or even safe for you.

I can feel PM in my legs even at a nominal dose.

Anyone that notices that as well should read up on DVT.

There is no one size that fits all. So even good advice can be bad for some.

As Plato (meant to say) says: Know thyself...even when taking estrogenic anything

[The First Aria]

Whilst I agree totally with your  message as a whole, I have to disagree with this bit:

secondly, the body will convert extra Estrogens into our dreaded Testosterone and DHT....  Not good for feminization...

That`s simply not true, T can convert to E, but when it`s E, it`s the end of the road.
E will Never convert to T.

I will have to look on my computer for the documentation.   Or at least the URL.

[The First Aria]

Everyone should be cognizant of potential dangers.


And listen to your own body.

Another may be able to ingest more, but that may not be right or even safe for you.

I can feel PM in my legs even at a nominal dose.

Anyone that notices that as well should read up on DVT.

There is no one size that fits all. So even good advice can be bad for some.

As Plato (meant to say) says: Know thyself...even when taking estrogenic anything

True, but as we both know....  sometimes the instant gratification, or just plain wanting to wake up the next morning with the body a person wants is itself a tempting siren.

[VergeOfDiscovery]

Everyone should be cognizant of potential dangers.


And listen to your own body.

Another may be able to ingest more, but that may not be right or even safe for you.

I can feel PM in my legs even at a nominal dose.

Anyone that notices that as well should read up on DVT.

There is no one size that fits all. So even good advice can be bad for some.

As Plato (meant to say) says: Know thyself...even when taking estrogenic anything

True, but as we both know....  sometimes the instant gratification, or just plain wanting to wake up the next morning with the body a person wants is itself a tempting siren.

Re: sometimes the instant gratification, or just plain wanting to wake up the next morning with the body a person wants is itself a tempting

There's always implants!

I remember reading one of the studies referenced prior that mentioned that a not insignificant percentage of MTF estrogen users go on to get implants as they're not satisfied with the results they get with that alone. I wonder if some, if they could know that in advance that they'd feel the same, would instead opt for implants (if an option) right from the start - especially those that really are wanting the instant gratification.

[MeganJ]

Whilst I agree totally with your  message as a whole, I have to disagree with this bit:

secondly, the body will convert extra Estrogens into our dreaded Testosterone and DHT....  Not good for feminization...

That`s simply not true, T can convert to E, but when it`s E, it`s the end of the road.
E will Never convert to T.

I will have to look on my computer for the documentation.   Or at least the URL.

Definitely no conversion of estrogen to testosterone - http://www.pathophys.org/sexhormones/

Yes too much can have negative effects as it can affect estrogen receptor sensitivity but any excess would just be removed from the body, but it definitely doesnt convert to testosterone.....I would expect this scare story is put in place to justify keeping levels within the "target" range - which wont necessarily result in optimal results for everyone.

Megan

[jannet.duff]

Re:
Free Estrogen  100 -225.  
Free Testosterone   25 - 50

I presume those are american units of measurments not pmol.

Estrogen of 300pg/ml is needed for successful T suppression.

Successful T suppression means no AA required.
Long term Spiro and Finesteride use have their own unwanted side effects.

Once GRS is complete 200pg/ml may be sufficient, but not before.

http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_ref.htm