[happyboobs]

Yep start a new thread please.

FYI you kinda dont really redistribute fat well yes and no. You an burn off some of the fat in the areas men normally are extra and as you gain new fat it goes with the E and P receptors like a women has and base on your genetics, DNA etc right.

But lower belly, fat in many of the places both sexs carry will stay the same. OH just really quick, loose any excess now and detox before you get down the road, once your T is way low is is way harder to loose the weight



So so much on these topics, so yep like Janet said we dont want to hi-jack this, please create a new thread, so many awesome folks will guide you.

PS thank you to

[wujo600]

1200 mg Reishi ( 600 mg morning and 600 mg evening ) is enough to NBE with 2500 mg pm/day and white peony ? It will block dht ?

[Stevenator.]

Yes.

No herbal product blocks DHT better than RR. 
RR can be combined with WP.

[shrinking]

An androgen antagonist (anti-androgen) can broadly be defined as any compound that has the biological effect of blocking or suppressing the action of male sex hormones such as testosterone within the human body. DHT blocks the conversion of aromatase (bad for breast growth).
____________________________________________________________________

Reishi-reishi mushrooms significantly reduced levels of 5-alpha reductase, preventing conversion of testosterone into the more potent DHT. High levels of DHT are a risk factor for conditions such as benign prostatatic hypertrophy (BPH), acne, and baldness.

White Peony--Estrogenic, blocks 5ar and pro-aromatase - Strong.
A compound found in white peony inhibits the production of testosterone and promotes the activity of aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen.

Spearmint-anti-androgenic properties reduce the level of free testosterone in the blood, while leaving total testosterone and DHEAS unaffected.


Green Tea Epigallocatechin-Green tea (camellia)-Reduce's the conversion of free testosterone into DHT and also raises SHBG (sex-hormone-binding-globulin).


Pygeum-include phytosterols that inhibit the production of dht. Pygeum also reduce's prolacting levels and block the accumulation of cholesterol in the prostate. Prolactin increase's the uptake of testosterone by the prostate. Pygeum reduces the levels of DHT in the blood and reduces the number of sites where the dht can attach.


Saw palmetto-Saw palmetto-Beta-sitosterol is a natural alpha-adrenergic receptor blocker. Prevents DHT from accumulating in prostate tissue that would otherwise cause excessive cell growth and inflammation. The plant steroids in saw palmetto also act on progesterone receptors, an action that causes a reduction in estrogen levels.


DIM is Diindolylmethane-It is an anti carcinogen and also improves estrogen metabolism. Plant-derived 3,3′-Diindolylmethane Is a Strong Androgen Antagonist in Human Prostate Cancer Cells* DIM is remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution to an established synthetic AR antagonist, Taken with estrogen agonist, activities of DIM are seen as an hormone disrupter. DIM is the first example of a pure androgen receptor antagonist from plants.


Nettle Root--Binds to SHBG (hormone that binds to excess hormones by decreasing hormone levels), and decreases 5ar and aromatase. Taking this tends to increase estrogen and testosterone. Would need to be taken with a pro-aromatase, and maybe estrogen.


Chinese Skullcap Inhibits the 5alpha-reductase enzyme-
Baicalein has been shown to inhibit the 5alpha-reductase enzyme, which converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT).  DHT is strongly associated with the development of prostate enlargement (benign prostatic hyperplasia) and prostate cancer.  As such, baicalein is reported to be potentially useful for the prevention and/or treatment of androgen-dependent (testosterone-driven) disorders, including prostate enlargement and prostate cancer.


Licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra)-Anti-androgenic and activates alpha and beta estrogen receptors and blocks 5-ar - Strong, but take in moderation!
Use with extreme caution

-For most disorders: Take 200 mg standardized extract in pill form three times a day, or 20 to 45 drops, three times a day, of a 1:5 tincture. (The 1:5 tincture represents one part herb is soaked in five parts liquid


Pumpkin Seed Oil: Has been demonstrated to inhibit DHT formation through the inhibitory effect on 5-alpha-reductase activity. Pumpkin seed oil breaks down DHT via the liver.


Emu Oil: Research has shown that emu oil contains a high level of linolenic acid which further research has shown to be an efficient antiandrogen. Linolenic acid is a potent 5 alpha reductase inhibitor and may be usefull in the treatment of disorders related to the hormone Dihydrotestosterone. Linolenic Acid has been suggested to be of use in the disorders such as benign prostratic hyperplasma, acne androgenetic alopecia and hirsuitism.


Even though it's not an AA it's worth mentioning because of its interaction.

L-Lysine: While L-Lysine is NOT a DHT blocker, it may make DHT blockers more effective. Researchers have found that adding a supplementation of L-Lysine can make drugs like Propecia more effective. Since propecia is a DHT inhibitor, as all the natural products mentioned here, the addition of a L-Lysine supplement can make these products also more effective. Studies has shown that L-Lysine combined with a DHT inhibitor can for example promote hair growth in people suffering from androgenetic alopecia.


Considering the potential to block DHT and increase aromatase adding fatty acids makes sense, only don't forget a fitness plan.

Anti-androgenic activity of fatty acids.

In this study, we show that 5alpha-reductase derived from rat fresh liver was inhibited by certain aliphatic free fatty acids. The influences of chain length, unsaturation, oxidation, and esterification on the potency to inhibit 5alpha-reductase activity were studied. Among the fatty acids we tested, inhibitory saturated fatty acids had C12-C16 chains, and the presence of a C==C bond enhanced the inhibitory activity. Esterification and hydroxy compounds were totally inactive. Finally, we tested the prostate cancer cell proliferation effect of free fatty acids. In keeping with the results of the 5alpha-reductase assay, saturated fatty acids with a C12 chain (lauric acid) and unsaturated fatty acids (oleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid) showed a proliferation inhibitory effect on lymph-node carcinoma of the prostate (LNCaP) cells. At the same time, the testosterone-induced prostate-specific antigen (PSA) mRNA expression was down-regulated. These results suggested that fatty acids with 5alpha-reductase inhibitory activity block the conversion of testosterone to 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and then inhibit the proliferation of prostate cancer cells.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19353546

Evening Primrose Oil- massage, Fibrocystic breast pain, treats hot flashes, relieves PMS symptoms, relieves Eczema, hormone balance, fights breast tumors and diabetes. Reports have GLA-Gamma-Linolenic Acid as helping with RA and arthritis, diabetic neuropathy, ADHD and CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome). And UPDATED to include it being an inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT, (DHT is bad for BOOB GROWTH).

Coconut Oil- Makes connective tissues stronger, superb antioxidant, neutralizes free radicals and slowing down aging, aids in breast feeding, nature's richest source of MCFAs. 5 ar inhibitor, aromatase



________________________________________

Reishi (Ganoderma lucidum)
Red reishi, commonly known as LingZhi in Chinese, is a mushroom thought to have many health benefits. In a research study exploring the anti-androgenic effects of 20 species of mushrooms, reishi mushrooms had the strongest action in inhibiting testosterone (3). That study found that reishi mushrooms significantly reduced levels of 5-alpha reductase, preventing conversion of testosterone into the more potent DHT. High levels of DHT are a risk factor for conditions such as benign prostatatic hypertrophy (BPH), acne, and baldness.

White Peony (Paeonia lactiflora)
Chinese peony is a widely grown ornamental plant with several hundred selected cultivars. Many of the cultivars have double flowers with the stamens modified into additional petals. White peony has been important in traditional Chinese medicine and has been shown to affect human androgen levels in vitro. In a 1991 study in the American Journal of Chinese Medicine Takeuchi et al described the effects of paeoniflorin, a compound found in white peony that inhibited the production of testosterone and promoted the activity of aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen (7). To date, there have been no studies that translate or explore the clinical effects.

Chaste Tree (Vitex agnus-castus)
Chaste tree (or chasteberry) is a native of the Mediterranean region and is traditionally used to correct hormone imbalances. In ancient times, it was believed to be an anaphrodisiac, hence the name chaste tree. Clinical studies have demonstrated effectiveness of medications produced from extract of the plant in the management of premenstrual syndrome (PMS) and cyclical mastalgia (14). The mechanism of action is presumed to be via dopaminergic effects resulting in changes of prolactin secretion from the anterior pituitary. At low doses, it blocks the activation of D2 receptors in the brain by competitive binding, causing a slight increase in prolactin release. In higher concentrations, the binding activity is sufficient to reduce the release of prolactin (15).

Reduction in prolactin levels affects FSH and estrogen levels in females and testosterone levels in men. There is as yet no information regarding its efficacy in endocrine disease states such as PCOS, however, one small-scale study has demonstrated this prolactin reducing effect in a group of healthy males, and the implication is that it could be of use in mild hyperprolactinemia (16, 17). One could also theorize that it could be refined for use as a male contraceptive, because testosterone reduction should reduce libido and sperm production. This topic is further explored in a review by Grant & Anawalt (18).



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...10-497.pdf

http://endometabol.com/?page=article&article_id=3644

[shrinking]

An androgen antagonist (anti-androgen) can broadly be defined as any compound that has the biological effect of blocking or suppressing the action of male sex hormones such as testosterone within the human body. DHT blocks the conversion of aromatase (bad for breast growth).
____________________________________________________________________

Reishi-reishi mushrooms significantly reduced levels of 5-alpha reductase, preventing conversion of testosterone into the more potent DHT. High levels of DHT are a risk factor for conditions such as benign prostatatic hypertrophy (BPH), acne, and baldness.

White Peony--Estrogenic, blocks 5ar and pro-aromatase - Strong.
A compound found in white peony inhibits the production of testosterone and promotes the activity of aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen.

Spearmint-anti-androgenic properties reduce the level of free testosterone in the blood, while leaving total testosterone and DHEAS unaffected.


Green Tea Epigallocatechin-Green tea (camellia)-Reduce's the conversion of free testosterone into DHT and also raises SHBG (sex-hormone-binding-globulin).


Pygeum-include phytosterols that inhibit the production of dht. Pygeum also reduce's prolacting levels and block the accumulation of cholesterol in the prostate. Prolactin increase's the uptake of testosterone by the prostate. Pygeum reduces the levels of DHT in the blood and reduces the number of sites where the dht can attach.


Saw palmetto-Saw palmetto-Beta-sitosterol is a natural alpha-adrenergic receptor blocker. Prevents DHT from accumulating in prostate tissue that would otherwise cause excessive cell growth and inflammation. The plant steroids in saw palmetto also act on progesterone receptors, an action that causes a reduction in estrogen levels.


DIM is Diindolylmethane-It is an anti carcinogen and also improves estrogen metabolism. Plant-derived 3,3′-Diindolylmethane Is a Strong Androgen Antagonist in Human Prostate Cancer Cells* DIM is remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution to an established synthetic AR antagonist, Taken with estrogen agonist, activities of DIM are seen as an hormone disrupter. DIM is the first example of a pure androgen receptor antagonist from plants.


Nettle Root--Binds to SHBG (hormone that binds to excess hormones by decreasing hormone levels), and decreases 5ar and aromatase. Taking this tends to increase estrogen and testosterone. Would need to be taken with a pro-aromatase, and maybe estrogen.


Chinese Skullcap Inhibits the 5alpha-reductase enzyme-
Baicalein has been shown to inhibit the 5alpha-reductase enzyme, which converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT).  DHT is strongly associated with the development of prostate enlargement (benign prostatic hyperplasia) and prostate cancer.  As such, baicalein is reported to be potentially useful for the prevention and/or treatment of androgen-dependent (testosterone-driven) disorders, including prostate enlargement and prostate cancer.


Licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra)-Anti-androgenic and activates alpha and beta estrogen receptors and blocks 5-ar - Strong, but take in moderation!
Use with extreme caution

-For most disorders: Take 200 mg standardized extract in pill form three times a day, or 20 to 45 drops, three times a day, of a 1:5 tincture. (The 1:5 tincture represents one part herb is soaked in five parts liquid


Pumpkin Seed Oil: Has been demonstrated to inhibit DHT formation through the inhibitory effect on 5-alpha-reductase activity. Pumpkin seed oil breaks down DHT via the liver.


Emu Oil: Research has shown that emu oil contains a high level of linolenic acid which further research has shown to be an efficient antiandrogen. Linolenic acid is a potent 5 alpha reductase inhibitor and may be usefull in the treatment of disorders related to the hormone Dihydrotestosterone. Linolenic Acid has been suggested to be of use in the disorders such as benign prostratic hyperplasma, acne androgenetic alopecia and hirsuitism.


Even though it's not an AA it's worth mentioning because of its interaction.

L-Lysine: While L-Lysine is NOT a DHT blocker, it may make DHT blockers more effective. Researchers have found that adding a supplementation of L-Lysine can make drugs like Propecia more effective. Since propecia is a DHT inhibitor, as all the natural products mentioned here, the addition of a L-Lysine supplement can make these products also more effective. Studies has shown that L-Lysine combined with a DHT inhibitor can for example promote hair growth in people suffering from androgenetic alopecia.


Considering the potential to block DHT and increase aromatase adding fatty acids makes sense, only don't forget a fitness plan.

Anti-androgenic activity of fatty acids.

In this study, we show that 5alpha-reductase derived from rat fresh liver was inhibited by certain aliphatic free fatty acids. The influences of chain length, unsaturation, oxidation, and esterification on the potency to inhibit 5alpha-reductase activity were studied. Among the fatty acids we tested, inhibitory saturated fatty acids had C12-C16 chains, and the presence of a C==C bond enhanced the inhibitory activity. Esterification and hydroxy compounds were totally inactive. Finally, we tested the prostate cancer cell proliferation effect of free fatty acids. In keeping with the results of the 5alpha-reductase assay, saturated fatty acids with a C12 chain (lauric acid) and unsaturated fatty acids (oleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid) showed a proliferation inhibitory effect on lymph-node carcinoma of the prostate (LNCaP) cells. At the same time, the testosterone-induced prostate-specific antigen (PSA) mRNA expression was down-regulated. These results suggested that fatty acids with 5alpha-reductase inhibitory activity block the conversion of testosterone to 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and then inhibit the proliferation of prostate cancer cells.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19353546

Evening Primrose Oil- massage, Fibrocystic breast pain, treats hot flashes, relieves PMS symptoms, relieves Eczema, hormone balance, fights breast tumors and diabetes. Reports have GLA-Gamma-Linolenic Acid as helping with RA and arthritis, diabetic neuropathy, ADHD and CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome). And UPDATED to include it being an inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT, (DHT is bad for BOOB GROWTH).

Coconut Oil- Makes connective tissues stronger, superb antioxidant, neutralizes free radicals and slowing down aging, aids in breast feeding, nature's richest source of MCFAs. 5 ar inhibitor, aromatase



________________________________________

Reishi (Ganoderma lucidum)
Red reishi, commonly known as LingZhi in Chinese, is a mushroom thought to have many health benefits. In a research study exploring the anti-androgenic effects of 20 species of mushrooms, reishi mushrooms had the strongest action in inhibiting testosterone (3). That study found that reishi mushrooms significantly reduced levels of 5-alpha reductase, preventing conversion of testosterone into the more potent DHT. High levels of DHT are a risk factor for conditions such as benign prostatatic hypertrophy (BPH), acne, and baldness.

White Peony (Paeonia lactiflora)
Chinese peony is a widely grown ornamental plant with several hundred selected cultivars. Many of the cultivars have double flowers with the stamens modified into additional petals. White peony has been important in traditional Chinese medicine and has been shown to affect human androgen levels in vitro. In a 1991 study in the American Journal of Chinese Medicine Takeuchi et al described the effects of paeoniflorin, a compound found in white peony that inhibited the production of testosterone and promoted the activity of aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen (7). To date, there have been no studies that translate or explore the clinical effects.

Chaste Tree (Vitex agnus-castus)
Chaste tree (or chasteberry) is a native of the Mediterranean region and is traditionally used to correct hormone imbalances. In ancient times, it was believed to be an anaphrodisiac, hence the name chaste tree. Clinical studies have demonstrated effectiveness of medications produced from extract of the plant in the management of premenstrual syndrome (PMS) and cyclical mastalgia (14). The mechanism of action is presumed to be via dopaminergic effects resulting in changes of prolactin secretion from the anterior pituitary. At low doses, it blocks the activation of D2 receptors in the brain by competitive binding, causing a slight increase in prolactin release. In higher concentrations, the binding activity is sufficient to reduce the release of prolactin (15).

Reduction in prolactin levels affects FSH and estrogen levels in females and testosterone levels in men. There is as yet no information regarding its efficacy in endocrine disease states such as PCOS, however, one small-scale study has demonstrated this prolactin reducing effect in a group of healthy males, and the implication is that it could be of use in mild hyperprolactinemia (16, 17). One could also theorize that it could be refined for use as a male contraceptive, because testosterone reduction should reduce libido and sperm production. This topic is further explored in a review by Grant & Anawalt (18).



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...10-497.pdf

http://endometabol.com/?page=article&article_id=3644






Hi Lotus,

I am beginning Saw Palmetto as an anti-androgen (for male) and would like to know what you recommend for a daily dosage. Thanks

[Lotus]

Hi Lotus,

I am beginning Saw Palmetto as an anti-androgen (for male) and would like to know what you recommend for a daily dosage. Thanks

Hi shrinking,

Go slow at first, meaning 1 capsule per day during the first 7-10 days, then evaluate how it made you feel. Saw palmetto is not an easy herb to take for some (self included). Proceed to 2 capsules per day once you feel comfortable with increasing the dosage, I wouldn't go much past that (imo).

Saw palmetto has been said to reduce estrogen...additionally it inhibits prolactin receptors in ovarian cells, though it inhibits prolactin in rat prostate https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10725865


But hey, guess what? oral estradiol lowers GH-(growth hormone), too crazy huh?. There's ways around that conundrum though by taking- MSM (Methylsulfonylmethane).

MSM enhances the GH-induced activation of Jak2/STAT5b pathway, and oh btw....prolactin takes this very same pathway: This Prolactin Jak2-Stat5 pathway contributes to alveolar development (alveologenesis), additionally, this activation of the prolactin receptor Jak2 (by prolactin) leads to other signaling pathways (e.g. mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) and PI 3-kinase (PI3K) pathways).

Once activated PrlR (prolactin receptor) induces STAT5 phosphorylation (pSTAT5) which is then translocated to the nucleus to regulate the transcription of target genes (Bole-Feysot et al., 1998).

In other words, this pathway will help with the development of breast growth...breast buds (aka: end buds). As we know, prolactin is responsible for lactation. This information is only scratching the surface of breast growth...there's so much more to it though. We should focus nutrition, taking supplements is one thing, our daily diets could be derailing good progress, I will be posting in my program thread again about this asap.


Mammary Gland Development
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404495/

Hi old and new friends (yet to meet), thank you for the kind words in nikki's thread (my apologies nikki for intruding in your thread, and btw your tatas look marvelous).

[Isabela]

Well if you're looking for an anti androgen, you will easily get a prescription for finasteride as it's a hairloss med.

If you want a stronger one, you can ask dutasteride, for hairloss too.

Both are alphareductase stuff, this will reduce a lot your androgen.

Anyway taking this can reduce your male sex activity

[tytykaka]

[quote = "wujo600" pid = '209462' dateline = '1580644822'] 1200 mg de Reishi (600 mg le matin et 600 mg le soir) est suffisant pour NBE avec 2500 mg pm / jour et pivoine blanche? Ça va bloquer dht? [/citation]

[tytykaka]

[quote = "wujo600" pid = '209462' dateline = '1580644822'] 1200 mg de Reishi (600 mg le matin et 600 mg le soir) est suffisant pour NBE avec 2500 mg pm / jour et pivoine blanche? Ça va bloquer dht? [/citation]

[Troublewithnibbles]

Hi Lotus,

I am beginning Saw Palmetto as an anti-androgen (for male) and would like to know what you recommend for a daily dosage. Thanks " alt="" title="">

Hi shrinking,

Go slow at first, meaning 1 capsule per day during the first 7-10 days, then evaluate how it made you feel. Saw palmetto is not an easy herb to take for some (self included). Proceed to 2 capsules per day once you feel comfortable with increasing the dosage, I wouldn't go much past that (imo).

Saw palmetto has been said to reduce estrogen...additionally it inhibits prolactin receptors in ovarian cells, though it inhibits prolactin in rat prostate https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10725865


But hey, guess what? oral estradiol lowers GH-(growth hormone), too crazy huh?. There's ways around that conundrum though by taking- MSM (Methylsulfonylmethane).

MSM enhances the GH-induced activation of Jak2/STAT5b pathway, and oh btw....prolactin takes this very same pathway: This Prolactin Jak2-Stat5 pathway contributes to alveolar development (alveologenesis), additionally, this activation of the prolactin receptor Jak2 (by prolactin) leads to other signaling pathways (e.g. mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) and PI 3-kinase (PI3K) pathways).

Once activated PrlR (prolactin receptor) induces STAT5 phosphorylation (pSTAT5) which is then translocated to the nucleus to regulate the transcription of target genes (Bole-Feysot et al., 1998).

In other words, this pathway will help with the development of breast growth...breast buds (aka: end buds). As we know, prolactin is responsible for lactation. This information is only scratching the surface of breast growth...there's so much more to it though. We should focus nutrition, taking supplements is one thing, our daily diets could be derailing good progress, I will be posting in my program thread again about this asap.


Mammary Gland Development
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404495/

Hi old and new friends (yet to meet), thank you for the kind words in nikki's thread (my apologies nikki for intruding in your thread, and btw your tatas look marvelous). " alt="" title="">

Hi Lotus!

Thank you so much for all that you have done here!  It amazes me how much material you have compiled over the years.

I have a question that I really haven’t seen addressed in the months that I have been reading here:  How does one focus their body’s feminization in areas below their breasts?  To clarify: I am far more desirous of developing a feminine waist, buttocks, hips, thighs, legs, etc. than I am of growing breasts. I know, I know; a forum called”breast nexum is probably not the ideal avenue.

I have been trying to do this as inexpensively as possible and also with items available in the supermarket

Thank you so much for your sage advice!