[JulietxxxDelta]

HELLO EVERYBODY XXX

i am quite new to all this.
there is so much info to take in and cross reference!

OMG where to start???

im looking for a specific list of natural herb combinations for:

*breast growth
*fat redistribution

can anybody suggest these combos and their cycles please?

i understand what and how cycles work, i just want to take 
ONLY what i have to for each cycle, avoiding anything that 
,may counteract the progression.

im 40 years old, masculine male that used to be a body builder
but am now a fairly nice fem shape after sizing down dramatically
from 106kg to 78kg!

but im still very muscular and would like to change this with fat redistrubution
and without having to take HRT etc.

i look forward to your advice x

Juliet Delta
xxx

[The First Aria]

I would suggest either looking at Lotus's threads or Flame Sabre's.  The way to begin, is simply begin with small amounts and every 30 - 60 days increase till you get to the point of feeling changes.  Many said you will feel changes before you can measure of photograph them.

[happyboobs]

Welcome Juliet !

Look into the PM section and read alearn also about the herbs, uses etc. But I would tell you the best is to look at taking PM 1 500 pill a day and extra D3+Calcium and lots of water. Then increase after a few weeks to 2 pills, on in the Am and one a few hrs before bed. Do lots of massaging to.

Best success to you coming your way.

[JulietxxxDelta]

Welcome Juliet !

Look into the PM section and read alearn also about the herbs, uses etc. But I would tell you the best is to look at taking PM 1 500 pill a day and extra D3+Calcium and lots of water. Then increase after a few weeks to 2 pills, on in the Am and one a few hrs before bed. Do lots of massaging to.

Best success to you coming your way.

hi!
thank you for the advice.
I shall be sure to check it.


kind regards
Delta
xxx

[JulietxxxDelta]

I would suggest either looking at Lotus's threads or Flame Sabre's.  The way to begin, is simply begin with small amounts and every 30 - 60 days increase till you get to the point of feeling changes.  Many said you will feel changes before you can measure of photograph them.

hi!

yes  i have been through the threads but im not familiar with any of the acronyms etc so its
quite a confusing read to be honest.

small amounts of what exactly?

kind regards
Delta
xxx

[Shirazmn]

Hi Juliet

I think that they are talking about PM, meaning Pueraria Mirifica. It's a plant growing in Thailand famouse for its strong phytoestrogenic properties. Many of us (I too am a masculine guy, and I am 90Kg) started with that. Some people decide to stay on PM, others try different solution like BO (Bovine Ovary, essentially ground oviarian tissue fro cows which is loaded wit estrogen), some try massage (very slow) and weaker phytoestrogens (Soy, FlaxSeed Oil...), and some move to doctor prescribed pharma HRT (Hormone replacement therapy, usually prescribed to Trans* people).

Depending on how much you care about retaining male function "down there" you may want to add a AA (Anti-Androgen) to your routine. These are substances that in some way block Testosterone and enhance the effects of any Estrogen you might be taking. Obviously this comes at a price, which is loss of sex drive, fatigue (for some people).
AA speed up the process of feminization, but BO and PM (see above) are known for working even without AA.
Some of the most famous and widely available AA are SP (Saw Palmetto, available over the counter more or less everywhere) and WP (White Peony). This last one seems to induce aromatase, which is a process when the body turns Testosterone into Estroge, lowering the first and hightening the second.
Remember that all the above are likely to have a detrimental effect on your sex drive and male functions.

One further clarification on terms: Estrogen (female hormone) is usually called "E" on this site, and Testosterne (male hormone) is frequently abbreviated in "T".

-----------------------------

In the comments above, when they suggested PM, they were saying that 500mg/day is a good start. That refers to pure PM powder liek the one available on www.ainterolherbs.com (Europe: www.ainterol.co.uk ). I agree that 500mg/day are good for a week to find out if you have any intolerance. After that the sugegsted dosage (suggested from their site) is 1000mg/day (2 caps), adding calcium, fat and proteins the diet. At this dosage you are likely to experience little breast growth after about 3 months, budding at month 4 or 5, and if you continue you could grow a full A cup in 8 to 12 months. Feminizing the rest of the body may take longer, but at month 4 you will already see some change in the shape of your waist and probably feel some fulness in your butt. After about a year, with a week off every month if you want to keep sex function going, you will have probably developed a bit of a hourglass shape.

Be careful what you wish for: after budding, the breast growth will be permanent and it may resume on its own in the future whenever you gain weightt (even if you stop taking herbs, PM, hormones etc...). Also, using PM may kill your sex drive and make erections more difficult to achieve and maintain. Many men out there that have ben on PM for long and without breaks report that the size of their "equipment" has drastically reduced.

Hope this helps

[JulietxxxDelta]

Hi Juliet

I think that they are talking about PM, meaning Pueraria Mirifica. It's a plant growing in Thailand famouse for its strong phytoestrogenic properties. Many of us (I too am a masculine guy, and I am 90Kg) started with that. Some people decide to stay on PM, others try different solution like BO (Bovine Ovary, essentially ground oviarian tissue fro cows which is loaded wit estrogen), some try massage (very slow) and weaker phytoestrogens (Soy, FlaxSeed Oil...), and some move to doctor prescribed pharma HRT (Hormone replacement therapy, usually prescribed to Trans* people).

Depending on how much you care about retaining male function "down there" you may want to add a AA (Anti-Androgen) to your routine. These are substances that in some way block Testosterone and enhance the effects of any Estrogen you might be taking. Obviously this comes at a price, which is loss of sex drive, fatigue (for some people).
AA speed up the process of feminization, but BO and PM (see above) are known for working even without AA.
Some of the most famous and widely available AA are SP (Saw Palmetto, available over the counter more or less everywhere) and WP (White Peony). This last one seems to induce aromatase, which is a process when the body turns Testosterone into Estroge, lowering the first and hightening the second.
Remember that all the above are likely to have a detrimental effect on your sex drive and male functions.

One further clarification on terms: Estrogen (female hormone) is usually called "E" on this site, and Testosterne (male hormone) is frequently abbreviated in "T".

-----------------------------

In the comments above, when they suggested PM, they were saying that 500mg/day is a good start. That refers to pure PM powder liek the one available on www.ainterolherbs.com (Europe: www.ainterol.co.uk ). I agree that 500mg/day are good for a week to find out if you have any intolerance. After that the sugegsted dosage (suggested from their site) is 1000mg/day (2 caps), adding calcium, fat and proteins the diet. At this dosage you are likely to experience little breast growth after about 3 months, budding at month 4 or 5, and if you continue you could grow a full A cup in 8 to 12 months. Feminizing the rest of the body may take longer, but at month 4 you will already see some change in the shape of your waist and probably feel some fulness in your butt. After about a year, with a week off every month if you want to keep sex function going, you will have probably developed a bit of a hourglass shape.

Be careful what you wish for: after budding, the breast growth will be permanent and it may resume on its own in the future whenever you gain weightt (even if you stop taking herbs, PM, hormones etc...). Also, using PM may kill your sex drive and make erections more difficult to achieve and maintain. Many men out there that have ben on PM for long and without breaks report that the size of their "equipment" has drastically reduced.

Hope this helps

hi Shirazmn
thank you so much for the explanations, very helpful!

are you saying that this combo of plant/herb will also help feminize my body shape due to the estrogen level change,
and not just my breast growth?

i was under the impression i would have to take another, separate combo for that.

and im also told there are certain foods i should avoid when taking the above for breast growth/estrogen promotion.
what are they?
are they obvious foods?

kind regards
Delta
xxx

[Shirazmn]

You're welcome

One estrogenic product is all you need to take at once. Mixing them together is pretty useless because the weaker estrogen could be in the way of the stronger one. For example, if you eat a lot of soy because of its estrogenic effect, and then you take PM (which is a stronger estrogen) you will weaken the effect of PM because part of the receptors in your body will be used by the weaker estrogen from soy.

PM, BO, and HRT will all cause changes in your body. On this site you can find experiences of people taking either of them, and growing a nice feminine shape over time. The most effective, obviously, is pharma HRT. Also because it is given by a doctor in connection with whatever you need to stop your testosterone. But if you, like me and many others, don't want to transition and only want to feminize your body, then PM and BO will work well.

Food wise you can research "food that help build testosterone" on Google... and then avoid them. I know that red meat and green leaf vegetables (lettuce, radish....) help raising T levels. Stay away from them.
Food that help feminization are, in general an in no particular order: nuts, seeds, hops, milk (apparently). Fennel seems to do a lot, particualrly fennel seeds.

Remember that to build breast tissue, while taking estrogens, your body will need a lot of calcium, and if it doesn't take it from your food it will take it from your bones. Add calcium to your diet. Also, proteins are needed along with fat to create new fat deposits. I keep suggesting cheese becaus it contains all the right stuff, and in good quantity.

One last word of advice about something I noticed (this is my opinion only): fat redistribution does NOT exist. Your fat will not migrate from your belly to your boobs and butt+hips. You will have to store new fat in "female areas", which is what estrogens make your body do, and burn the fat in "male areas", which is where you store while producing normal levels of testosterone. So it takes time for your body to change shape, and once you stop estrogens and herbs if will probably revert. Boobs are a different beast from hips and ass because breast tissue is permanent while fat deposits, no matter where, are temporary.

[JulietxxxDelta]

You're welcome

One estrogenic product is all you need to take at once. Mixing them together is pretty useless because the weaker estrogen could be in the way of the stronger one. For example, if you eat a lot of soy because of its estrogenic effect, and then you take PM (which is a stronger estrogen) you will weaken the effect of PM because part of the receptors in your body will be used by the weaker estrogen from soy.

PM, BO, and HRT will all cause changes in your body. On this site you can find experiences of people taking either of them, and growing a nice feminine shape over time. The most effective, obviously, is pharma HRT. Also because it is given by a doctor in connection with whatever you need to stop your testosterone. But if you, like me and many others, don't want to transition and only want to feminize your body, then PM and BO will work well.

Food wise you can research "food that help build testosterone" on Google... and then avoid them. I know that red meat and green leaf vegetables (lettuce, radish....) help raising T levels. Stay away from them.
Food that help feminization are, in general an in no particular order: nuts, seeds, hops, milk (apparently). Fennel seems to do a lot, particualrly fennel seeds.

Remember that to build breast tissue, while taking estrogens, your body will need a lot of calcium, and if it doesn't take it from your food it will take it from your bones. Add calcium to your diet. Also, proteins are needed along with fat to create new fat deposits. I keep suggesting cheese becaus it contains all the right stuff, and in good quantity.

One last word of advice about something I noticed (this is my opinion only): fat redistribution does NOT exist. Your fat will not migrate from your belly to your boobs and butt+hips. You will have to store new fat in "female areas", which is what estrogens make your body do, and burn the fat in "male areas", which is where you store while producing normal levels of testosterone. So it takes time for your body to change shape, and once you stop estrogens and herbs if will probably revert. Boobs are a different beast from hips and ass because breast tissue is permanent while fat deposits, no matter where, are temporary.

oh thats great advice thank you!

i shall check the foods list, good idea.

so is there a way to only feminize the body and not start breast growth then?

im an athletic guy with pretty much zero fat, but still a little muscular (although the boys seem to really like it! ) 
so im looking to gain more a fem shape through this.
After sizing down from 106kg of muscle I am now a lovely 80kg (im 6.1 tall) 
and im quite a nice shape already, so I believe that this would work well
for me, even if only a little, im sure i would really notice it!

i basically want to start with my body so that im not rushing into transitioning, 
and allowing it to change me slowly and organically.

then start the boobs cycle once im comfortable in my new skin again.

is this possible?

Delta
xxx

[marshallenfj]

Hi Delta, 

I have similar goals to what you described.  I want to work on feminizing my body's shape, getting some curves, and feeling the mental and emotional effects of estrogen but all while limiting breast growth.  I admit that growing my own breasts has a lot of appeal for me, but I know that it would have to come after getting my body to a state where I'd want to see breasts on it. And right now, I'd be completely satisfied with getting nice, fit, feminine waist, hips, butt and legs since I'm also just working on getting fitter in general.

At the start of the year was when I really got into this but it was a rough start, and I fell off keeping up with my regimen. Basically, I was overdoing it with the wrong stuff and while I felt some effects starting to happen (softer chest, emotional/mental changes, maybe some changes around my hips) I was randomly dizzy and fatigued almost instantly when working out.  So, on top of wanting to clear out my system and restart fresh, I got a great new job and moved. It's been a 6 month break basically. Now I'm starting again with a real mild program, and thought you might be interested, especially since red maca has been my staple so far and that supposedly targets the legs and hips, not the chest.  It's sold at the Organic Market near me and is touted as a superfood, but there's almost no research backing up what it can do. Best I've found is that it's an adaptogen, it helps balance your hormones (not sure how that applies to people taking the other sex's hormones), black is better for testosterone and muscle buildlng, red is better for estrogen and fertility. Women online say that it's increased their bust, made them fatter, and taking it for a month straight while working out gave them bigger hips. It's pretty variable, and personally I've been taking it pretty irregularly so I've had no definitive effects except high libido but also no negative effects so far.

This weekend I'll start daily taking 1 tablespoon of red maca in a protein shake in the morning (up to 3 tbsp if I worked out first, which I usually do).  And in the evening before bed, I plan to experiment with taking white peony (for aromatase) and either one 500mg pill of Ainterol PM or rubbing several drops of Ainterol's PM cream into my backside.  Switching between PM source every two weeks, maybe more. Before, I tried doing this all together with more PM, plus SP, red reishi mushroom, and it was just too much. Especially too much AA. This time I'm not using any AA.  I highly recommend that whatever you use, that you start lower than you think you should, do what you can to not get carried away with excitement, see what feels right, and slowly ramp up.

Also, I'm not sure the exact measurement of WP I'm using; it's a dropper-full (20-30 drops, so maybe a tablespoon) included with the Hawaii Pharma bottle, which was recommended by someone else on this site. Might do more than one dropper to feel it out since the bottle recommends 1-4 daily. And theoretically, the PM cream should work more on where you apply it, but it's obviously putting PM into your system so it will affect you everywhere.

Anyway, long post but hope it's helpful info. I'm interested in hearing updates on what you choose to do and the outcomes since you're looking for similar goals.  Best of luck, whatever you do.