[Troublewithnibbles]

And how exactly do we inhibit somatostatin?  I read this multiple times and didn’t pick up on that bit.

Melatonin and Phosphatidylcholine or Alpha GPC or CDP-choline help to inhibit somatostatin. Melatonin is 1-3mg and alpha GPC at 1200mg. I'm looking into a few other options too, I'll post that info when I find out more.

So melatonin will help me sleep AND grow?  Sounds like a win-win!

[PleasantlyFascinated]

Very hopeful to learn other tricks for enhancing somatotropin, or curtailing somatostatin.

I've used 3 mg. melatonin, 250 mg. CDP-choline, and Phosphatidylcholine for years.  I didn't notice it made any difference.  Even though I lift weights daily, I'm fairly locked in at my high-school weight and musculature.  I've always figured it was the statin holding me back.

[Lotus]

This post is for anyone wishing to lactate.

 Prolactin is basically stimulated by the paraventricular nucleus via the hypothalamus, (I won't describe prolactin inhibiting hormone because dopamine is the same thing). Basically Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone (TRH) is essentially passed on by the anterior pituitary to be released the lactotrope cell inside the anterior pituitary and on out via blood supply.

Things needed to produce breast milk:

1) Estrogen
2) Inhibiting dopamine 
3) TRH- Thyrotropin releasing hormone 
4) Breast feeding (some BN members use pumps, use the BN search to find threads).

What's cool is that when dopamine is inhibited the secretion of Adenylyl Cyclase is stimulated (much in the same way alcar works) to stimulate ATP production. But...that pesky PDE stops ATP synthesis in the mitochondria, unless we use a PDE inhibitor.

So D1 agonists (promoters) inhibit dopamine (D2 inhibitors are too risky to use). Which in this case D1 agonists stimulates protein kinase C (PKC), in other words PKC stimulates aromatase too. My plan is skipping inhibiting dopamine and stimulating it with PKC, sorta leapfrogging dopamine, it's already been proven. There's a PKC promoter that fits the bill. Since D1 agonists stimulate Adenyl Cyclase which then produces ATP and aromatase we don't need dopamine for stimulating prolactin because dopamine is messy.

Inhibiting dopamine raises prolactin. Estrogen raises prolactin too, but high levels of estrogens inhibit prolactin. In the process of prolactin stimulation alveolar glands (lobules) get bigger. Ironically MSM stimulates what's known as the Jak2/STAT pathway, and this pathway stimulates alveolar glands (housed inside the lobules) via the portal blood system...this is good as it helps with protein synthesis. We need further protein synthesis of alveolar glands to generate such things as Iga-1, milk proteins, vitamins, cholesterol, lactoferrin (etc) so that breast milk can be produced. We also need ATP in this protein synthesis, but that goes back to describing the citric acid cycle (aka krebs cycle), lol, that's covered in an earlier post. 

Once protein synthesis is released to lumen then its on the way out of the lactiferous ducts to express milk.

So, if you take an antidepressant, thyroid medication, or estrogen you're almost there. The PKC (protein kinase C) is Forskolin. but, not all Forskolin is created equal. 

I can see MSM playing a part here. I don't have the particular dosages needed on estradiol, MSM or antidepressants or forskolin just yet. But I do see forskolin as an herbal replacement for estradiol as it being a pro-aromatase herb. 

@ troublewithnibbles- from experience not all melatonin is created equal too, meaning some seem more effective than others. 

@ AWOO, you're welcome, and good to see you posting again.

@ Pleasantlyfascinated, lol, I'm on it. 

[Stevenator.]

Thanks, LT. If I could only remember my old login, that would be cool. Until then, I’ll just AWOO. But, that being said, I think the abstract of the Cimetidine study says to take 800mg, twice a day. Tbh, that’s too much for me. I say that, as the studies I read about Cimetidine and Gynecomastia were long term use doctor prescribed doses of 1,600mg for Antacid, produced a flood of prolactin and elevated rates of Gynecomastia. I’ll have to refer back to those studies, but these effects were notated at between doses of 800mg and 1600mg. I tried this several times, but I could only last a week at a time due to “sex organ weight reduction”. Plus, since the range of doses were 800-1600, I took 1,000. Any more is a waste of money as the stuff isn’t cheap and elevated and prolonged use can inhibit liver function, and it just ain’t worth it. 

I’m a little confused about a Cimetidine’s role in all this. Are you saying it inhibits Somatostatin? 

There’s several other stomach acid drugs available, but I do keep Cimetidine in the cabinet for all it’s known properties. I only take it now for it’s intended use, though. And certainly not at elevated doses anymore. Tbh, the few times I experimented with it, shrank my package. And it never recovered. Not too happy about that, tbh.

[Troublewithnibbles]

I tried the melatonin (3mg with gaba and theanine) that I had on hand 2 nights ago along with only a half dose of forskolin and a dose of GTE. Woke up 3 hours later tingling  in the usual growth areas and had the biggest erection I’ve had in several months. All I can say is wow!

[Lotus]

Hi PleasantlyFascinated,

I'll take MSM 2-3g and melatonin at bedtime for various reasons. I've tried Alpha GPC but it keeps me up. Fasting lowers the androgen index in males. I know you fast for 15hrs, from study's I've read IF and alternate day fasting achieve the same results...tbh, I've haven't tried AF so can't offer an opinion. Have you thought about stretching it to 16hrs?...20hrs of IF seems to be the sweet spot. I think a 48hr prolonged fast spike HGH somewhere around 1500%, beats the hell out taking MK-677 (I'll share a post made on the ladies forum giving a hypothesis on why people don't see results using MK-677).

I see your program hits a lot of aspects towards fitness & NBE goals. Saw palmetto might be redundant if using reishi. From previous research saw palmetto inhibits progesterone receptors and lowers estrogen which might work against desired results. 

On inhibiting somatostatin, it's in breast growers' interest to inhibit its action. Meaning when somatostatin is released it inhibits prolactin, oral estradiol, adenylyl cyclase, growth hormone and TSH (thyroid releasing hormone)...which also inhibits TRH (Thyrotropin releasing hormone). And inhibiting TRH means no prolactin production. In other words prolactin stimulates the aveolargenesis in the lobules of breasts. Vitamin D3 and MSM are very important for alveolar stimulation. 

When you inhibit adenylyl cyclase you inhibit ATP production, and the end result of that is inhibiting aromatase.

See, estrogen stimulates prolactin and growth hormone, so by somatostatin inhibiting their action it seems like an awful waste for breast growth. 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neu...matostatin

Antibody experiments (1) have clearly shown that basal GH levels are elevated when somatostatin is neutralized. 

Somatomedin C has also been implicated in the negative feedback regulation of GH, at least partially by stimulating release of somatostatin (5). 
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100...-7886-4_18

Most effective way to block somatostatin is in the stomach. Supplements for inhibiting somatostatin are listed in post #4192. Still working on adding other inhibiting agents to the list asap.

When you inhibit adenylyl cyclase you inhibit ATP production, and the end result of that is it inhibits aromatase. 

Somatostatin is used for treating Gigantism and Acromegaly, and other various conditions:
https://www.drugs.com/drug-class/somatos...alogs.html

Somatostatin agonists for treatment of acromegaly
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697610/

[Lotus]

Thanks, LT. If I could only remember my old login, that would be cool. Until then, I’ll just AWOO. But, that being said, I think the abstract of the Cimetidine study says to take 800mg, twice a day. Tbh, that’s too much for me. I say that, as the studies I read about Cimetidine and Gynecomastia were long term use doctor prescribed doses of 1,600mg for Antacid, produced a flood of prolactin and elevated rates of Gynecomastia. I’ll have to refer back to those studies, but these effects were notated at between doses of 800mg and 1600mg. I tried this several times, but I could only last a week at a time due to “sex organ weight reduction”. Plus, since the range of doses were 800-1600, I took 1,000. Any more is a waste of money as the stuff isn’t cheap and elevated and prolonged use can inhibit liver function, and it just ain’t worth it. 

I’m a little confused about a Cimetidine’s role in all this. Are you saying it inhibits Somatostatin? 

There’s several other stomach acid drugs available, but I do keep Cimetidine in the cabinet for all it’s known properties. I only take it now for it’s intended use, though. And certainly not at elevated doses anymore. Tbh, the few times I experimented with it, shrank my package. And it never recovered. Not too happy about that, tbh.

Yes, cimetidine inhibits somatostatin, though side effects of using cimetidine are too many to ignore. Maybe save it for a rainy day, or to mash those acorns to nothingness.

[Lotus]

I tried the melatonin (3mg with gaba and theanine) that I had on hand 2 nights ago along with only a half dose of forskolin and a dose of GTE. Woke up 3 hours later tingling  in the usual growth areas and had the biggest erection I’ve had in several months. All I can say is wow!

Wow indeed. That must've been one helluva dream lol. Good choice on adding gaba, though the forskolin and GTE would keep me up all night. Try adding MSM 2g and vitamin D3 (4000IU) to the gaba and melatonin. MSM and vitamin D3 aid in synthesis of alveolar glands inside the lobules of the breasts. In other words...milk ducts.

[Troublewithnibbles]

I tried the melatonin (3mg with gaba and theanine) that I had on hand 2 nights ago along with only a half dose of forskolin and a dose of GTE. Woke up 3 hours later tingling  in the usual growth areas and had the biggest erection I’ve had in several months. All I can say is wow!

Wow indeed. That must've been one helluva dream lol. Good choice on adding gaba, though the forskolin and GTE would keep me up all night. Try adding MSM 2g and vitamin D3 (4000IU) to the gaba and melatonin. MSM and vitamin D3 aid in synthesis of alveolar glands inside the lobules of the breasts. In other words...milk ducts.

I tried as you suggested without the forskolin and gte and with the msm and d3. Same effect. I wonder why.

[Lotus]

I tried the melatonin (3mg with gaba and theanine) that I had on hand 2 nights ago along with only a half dose of forskolin and a dose of GTE. Woke up 3 hours later tingling  in the usual growth areas and had the biggest erection I’ve had in several months. All I can say is wow!

Wow indeed. That must've been one helluva dream lol. Good choice on adding gaba, though the forskolin and GTE would keep me up all night. Try adding MSM 2g and vitamin D3 (4000IU) to the gaba and melatonin. MSM and vitamin D3 aid in synthesis of alveolar glands inside the lobules of the breasts. In other words...milk ducts.

I tried as you suggested without the forskolin and gte and with the msm and d3. Same effect. I wonder why.

Hi TWN, 

I believe it's related to melatonin. In your case (TWN aka troublewithnibbles) by taking melatonin it puts you in REM sleep throughout the course of the night. And in so doing your T will rise during the REM stage. In this example it's called nocturnal erections, another example is seen in morning wood. 

In high doses meaning inhibits reproductive hormones, we don't want this of course. I'm not worried about taking melatonin increasing my T. I'm going after prolactin and HGH while I sleep. 

During the day dopamine is higher and melatonin is lower, at night, dopamine is lower while melatonin is higher.

Dopamine is another name for PIH (prolactin inhibiting hormone). When dopamine is low prolactin will increase. Prolactin helps to increase breast size via aveolargenesis (increase to milk ducts). And as mentioned MSM helps with the prolactin and GH (growth hormone) synthesis.

Try dropping melatonin to 1mg and see if that helps. What other pharma meds do you take at night, and how many hours of sleep are you getting?.

Additionally:

There's research pointing to the fact melatonin protects tissues from oxidative damage produced from free radicals. And also melatonin has positive outcomes on erections. In other words, as we add anti-androgens they obviously reduce erectile function, however, melatonin has unseen benefits for helping keeping mr. happy, er-um happy. 


Relationship between plasma melatonin levels and the efficacy of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors treatment on premature ejaculation 

Our findings show that premature ejaculation is associated with decreased plasma melatonin levels. 
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24712716/