[Stevenator.]

MK677 seems to be tightly controlled. I purchased some before, thinking I was getting a normal amount. I got a teeny tiny amount, instead. The stuff made me VERY Hungry, and VERY Tired. It’s got some interesting science behind it, though.

[Phanatic]

Depending on what country you're in, it's not exactly something you're *supposed* to have. If you're in certain countries you can buy it for "research".

And yeah. Major major hunger from MK677, and water retention that's not tied to sex hormones. It's a pity about the hunger actually, if not it would be quite an effective fat loss drug. But for girls who are struggling to eat enough *and* trying to grow boobs, I guess it could be just what they need.

And I suspect the further you are from your teens, the more it would help with mimicking the higher growth hormone pubertal environment.

[Eloise]

In regard to melatonin, you wrote: “melatonin it puts you in REM sleep throughout the course of the night. And in so doing your T will rise during the REM stage. In this example it's called nocturnal erections, another example is seen in morning wood.”  But doesn’t this, then, contradict not wanting our T-levels to rise?  I get that it inhibits somatostatin but at the expense of raising T?  If I took a T-blocker with it would that help offset the rise in T from melatonin?  Plus, you said that taking MSM at night is more beneficial.  Why is that?  Is it to open the pathways by morning when I start taking E?  

[VergeOfDiscovery]

IIRC Huperzine A is a somatostatin inhibitor also. It's been used in stacks with MK677 and GH releasing peptides where the body releasing more of it's own internally produced GH.

Huperzine A is quite handy as an OTC acetylcholinesterase inhibitor.

[Stevenator.]

Re: MK677 .... If I’m not mistaken, that’s how it stimulates GH, is through hunger. I can’t remember the specifics. I believe Lotus spoke on this before about GH. There aren’t too many GH options if memory fails me. Many, like MK677, are tightly controlled. Isn’t MK677 what Barry Bonds was using to cheat at baseball? Hunger is an easy way to boost GH. Whenever I have a very strenuous day working in the yard/garden, I seem to notice a growth spurt boost.

[Phanatic]

MK677 is a ghrelin (hunger hormone) agonist, yeah. IIRC. I suppose MK677 mimics the effects of fasting (high GH) but to a much higher level than you would get naturally.

[Stevenator.]

Lotus, I’m curious about your research of Melatonin in relation to Somatostatin. You mention that 3mg is enough to stop Somatostatin. I apologize if you’ve already covered this, but can I take a higher dose of Melatonin and still achieve the same results? Ever since I switched to a lower dose, I’m having the hardest time falling asleep at night. Maybe I just have too much on my mind, but it’s getting old. Thx

[Lotus]

In regard to melatonin, you wrote: “melatonin it puts you in REM sleep throughout the course of the night. And in so doing your T will rise during the REM stage. In this example it's called nocturnal erections, another example is seen in morning wood.”  But doesn’t this, then, contradict not wanting our T-levels to rise?  I get that it inhibits somatostatin but at the expense of raising T?  If I took a T-blocker with it would that help offset the rise in T from melatonin?  Plus, you said that taking MSM at night is more beneficial.  Why is that?  Is it to open the pathways by morning when I start taking E? 

Some literature mentions a slight T increase, though in younger men. In other research melatonin has no impact on T. 

You could alternately supplement with an anti-androgen at night, or even a pro-aromatase. 

MSM at night helps with GH and prolactin secretion via stat5 pathway, which involves the growth of alveolar glands in breast tissue. Ultimately, melatonin stimulates prolactin too. The study below is a rat study example on how to inhibit T.


Melatonin inhibits testosterone secretion by acting at the hypothalamo-pituitary-gonadal axis in the rat.

Our results suggest that melatonin inhibits testosterone secretion by acting at hypothalamo-pituitary axis. There is a functional relationship and feedback regulation between the pineal gland and the testes.
https://europepmc.org/article/med/11455362

––———————

Lotus, I’m curious about your research of Melatonin in relation to Somatostatin. You mention that 3mg is enough to stop Somatostatin. I apologize if you’ve already covered this, but can I take a higher dose of Melatonin and still achieve the same results? Ever since I switched to a lower dose, I’m having the hardest time falling asleep at night. Maybe I just have too much on my mind, but it’s getting old. Thx

Hi stevenator,

Melatonin usage is different for all people, some are more/or less sensitive to it, and that's due part to certain genes and how you metabolize medications, in other words, find out what dosage works for you.
I've seen research on alternative treatments for insomnia, this linked study below is one example of how certain vitamins can be used w/melatonin to treat insomnia.

Magnesium 
Vitamin B complex (B6 and B12 alternately if you can't do B complex)
Melatonin 
Vitamin D (not mentioned, I'm adding it though)

I believe insomnia is tied to gut health, or at least improving it. I'm following something called Deuterium, and how depleting said deuterium (in your bodies) can help improve sleep, metabolic function, help fight cancer, improve gut health and other ailments...literally fascinating stuff. Hopefully I'll have something to share on it real soon.

The Effects of Magnesium – Melatonin - Vit B Complex Supplementation in Treatment of Insomnia

study group was treated with Magnesium-melatonin-vitamin B complex (one dose contains 175 mg liposomal magnesium oxide, 10 mg Vit B6, 16 μg vit B12, melatonin 1 mg, Extrafolate-S 600 μg) once a day 1 hour before sleep, during the 3 months. 

Our findings indicate that 3 months of the Magnesium- melatonin-vitamin B complex supplementation has a beneficial effect in the treatment of insomnia regardless of cause.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6910806/

Don't use magnesium oxide (unless you're constipated). Opt for magnesium glycinate or magnesium L-Threonate...it's more expensive (yes), but better absorption, check out the research on both and judge for yourself.

[Stevenator.]

Mini Tanks, Lotus

I’ll pop some MSM & D3 and head off to bed. 
I’ll study this further tomorrow. 
We appreciate all of your hard work & research!

[Nipply Russel]

Mini Tanks, Lotus

I’ll pop some MSM & D3 and head off to bed. 
I’ll study this further tomorrow. 
We appreciate all of your hard work & research!

Take care if taking a statin to reduce cholesterol. At least one of them states that you can't take magnesium within x hours of taking the statin. Just a heads-up.