[taxer]

[

I agree.  i always was a breast man.  I sort of envied girls and I decided to get my own (somewhat later in life) so after investigating I started an estrogen regime and now have a nice (I think) set of 38 B's.  I still work on my old cars, fix the toilet, mow the grass, etc.  No desire to trans.  Just wanted  nice set of breasts and don't hide them, but then again don't flaunt them.

[/quote]

Pretty horrible comment, to be honest.
Men are not just alpha-males or sissies. And hormones don't make you talk about football or bras. 

Many male-staying-males users on this site are dominant men who may or may not crossdress and, regardless of their reasons to want boobs, they just want breasts. 
It's a very old ongoing conversation on this forum. Males-staying-males seem to get little respect from other users who transitioned or that identify as trans*. This section of the site is for guys who mean to remain guys, doing guys' jobs, drinking guys' drinks, watching guys' TV, and then adding whatever they feel they like, like bras, boobs, a plump ass, heels, or whatever, to their life. Coming to this section specifically to tell us that we are trans just because someone discovered that they were is NOT a good thing. As far as I know, males staying males are not going around in the TS areas of this site spamming stuff like "if you are XY then you'll never be a woman regardless of your tits". I don't get why the opposite is considered acceptable.

So no, Dawn's comment was wrong because it's based on her own experience and not on ours. It was wrong because it's offensive to those who are Cisgender regardless of their boob envy. And it was wrong because if you invert the parts it's just rude b*lls*it. 

Sorry for the angry comment. I've seen enough of this rubbish in the past every time someone sees a shrink that convinces them that transitioning is the only good thing in the world. Not everyone is trans*. Get over it.
[/quote]

[Drew]

OH Cmon ppl don't mob dawn.

If you're a male wanting to stay male then yeah, okay good luck with that, that's how i started out too, but.....regardless!

It has to be admitted that a guy living in a guys world, fixing the toilet, cars, spitting on the sidewalk etc wanting to have his own female breasts and possibly needing to wear a bra to support them isn't actually normal male behaviour. No denying this, it's definitely not normal male behaviour.

Don't get on Dawns case, there is a reason you want boobs but it may be something you aren't willing to accept.

Fix your cars, punch other men in the face and grow your boobs.

I think Dawn and I have woken up and smelt the coffee, but hope so much you can achieve your boob goal and feel like a normal male with big feminine tits. Yeah think a bit about that.

Oh and are you seriously naive enough to think that if you reach an estrogen level high enough and long enough to get a nice b cup that will be it?
The entire body feminises NOT just your chest. Ppl here are often sooooo boob fixated they ignore the bigger picture.
Sorry Estrofem doesn't help my bitchyness but had to be said.

[Shirazmn]

OH Cmon ppl don't mob dawn.

If you're a male wanting to stay male then yeah, okay good luck with that, that's how i started out too, but.....regardless!

It has to be admitted that a guy living in a guys world, fixing the toilet, cars, spitting on the sidewalk etc wanting to have his own female breasts and possibly needing to wear a bra to support them isn't actually normal male behaviour. No denying this, it's definitely not normal male behaviour.

Don't get on Dawns case, there is a reason you want boobs but it may be something you aren't willing to accept.

Fix your cars, punch other men in the face and grow your boobs.

I think Dawn and I have woken up and smelt the coffee, but hope so much you can achieve your boob goal and feel like a normal male with big feminine tits. Yeah think a bit about that.

Oh and are you seriously naive enough to think that if you reach an estrogen level high enough and long enough to get a nice b cup that will be it?
The entire body feminises NOT just your chest. Ppl here are often sooooo boob fixated they ignore the bigger picture.
Sorry Estrofem doesn't help my bitchyness but had to be said.

"there is a reason you want boobs but it may be something you aren't willing to accept"
What about: "there is a reason you want boobs other than Dawn's and mine?"

"The entire body feminises NOT just your chest."
OK, so you can be a man with a thin waist, a large butt and gynecomastia. I still can't see why this HAS to be trans*.
One of the worst things in Dawn's post is that Estrogen would make you talk about girly stuff. This is wrong even from a LGBT point of view, what the heck! So they were right giving Turing forced testosterone injections to make him straight? Like, they pump T in you and one week later you watch Manchester United while pimping your Ford Fiesta into a monster truck. Right?

"Sorry Estrofem doesn't help my bitchyness but had to be said."
No, it hadn't to be said. It's just bitchiness. Particularly in the MsM area of the website.

Maybe I am too much of a gentleman. I should go posting estrogenic "Bitchyness" induced responses in the Transgender threads. I am sure you'd love someone to come and highlight the differences between a trans woman and a woman, like you do with those between us and "a man".

[Drew]

Males staying male.

If you are a male who has the desire to feminise your body.......that isn't actually staying male is it. Or am I seriously missing something obvious here, if so please help.

It seems to me that the majority of people here self medicate, myself included. This is not a particularly clever thing to do so why do we do it? Desperation? A male decides he wants female breasts and is prepared to risk his health to achieve this goal. Why?
Is there a feminine side that is screaming to be let out, is it just a fetish, for whatever reason you have decided you want female breasts on your own body, no matter the cost. Alright you have done it, you have boobs, not just boobs but curves where you didn't expect to have them, you have feminised yourself and it all went well with no health problems, what now?
Am I still 100 % male, if the answer is yes then that's just denial.
I live in a man's world, being male outside but am i? Of couse I'm Fing not! The body under that uniform is very feminine and it's impossible not to feel feminine even when hiding it.
If you are thinking I'm male and will stay absolutely male, why go down this road in the first place taking the potential risk to your health.
Me, I embrace my feminine side and would never want to attempt to bury it. Sorry but male staying male with a feminine body???
How does that work?

[DruLactin]

Males staying male.

If you are a male who has the desire to feminise your body.......that isn't actually staying male is it. Or am I seriously missing something obvious here, if so please help.

It seems to me that the majority of people here self medicate, myself included. This is not a particularly clever thing to do so why do we do it? Desperation? A male decides he wants female breasts and is prepared to risk his health to achieve this goal. Why?
Is there a feminine side that is screaming to be let out, is it just a fetish, for whatever reason you have decided you want female breasts on your own body, no matter the cost. Alright you have done it, you have boobs, not just boobs but curves where you didn't expect to have them, you have feminised yourself and it all went well with no health problems, what now?
Am I still 100 % male, if the answer is yes then that's just denial.
I live in a man's world, being male outside but am i? Of couse I'm Fing not! The body under that uniform is very feminine and it's impossible not to feel feminine even when hiding it.
If you are thinking I'm male and will stay absolutely male, why go down this road in the first place taking the potential risk to your health.
Me, I embrace my feminine side and would never want to attempt to bury it. Sorry but male staying male with a feminine body???
How does that work?

You've made 2 posts on this, you should get a response.

The dichotomy here is between 2 groups: Cis Men and Transgenders. There are obviously middle grounds to some extent (you, right?) but that's irrelevant to the dichotomy at hand.

Now, there are quite a few transgender posts on here that go very... extra. An example (paraphrasing) is "It's invalidating to say that I'm a trans woman, yet still a male. I say that I was assigned male at birth. The trained professionals at my birth got it wrong."

Thats an edge case, a rather extreme example (which is why I remember it), granted. However, when the non-transgender people see things like that, at least a few would say "Holy shirts, that's mentally insane and delusional" because they have a different opinion on how female and male work, and basically everyone else would say "This really doesn't describe me very well, I just kind of like boobs to deeper extent than the average guy"

That's not the most head-on response, sorry if it doesn't answer much very well. Lets look at your post.

"Are you self medicating out of desperation" No, doctors are expensive and would probably steer us away from natural and/or preferable options. There are many other reasons to avoid doctors about it as well that i won't think of now.

"something about curves" we can take it in stride, maybe we like the curves, maybe its whatever. we still think we are male.

"
Am I still 100 % male, if the answer is yes then that's just denial.

" It's biological sex, if male and female refer to that. Maybe we become less manly, but we are still male, and we are still men.

"why go down this road in the first place taking the potential risk to your health.

" any number of reasons for this. The number of 45+ year olds tells me that they're probably thinking if theyre going to lose their sheer masculinity they had before, might as well try a bit of the other side, with softness, boobss and curves, etc.

"
Sorry but male staying male with a feminine body

???" Have you seen a butch lesbian? does the fact that they could pass for a dude suddenly make them wear boxers, drink beer, watch football, and go by "he"? No? Then get off our backs about it in the reverse case.

In conclusion, I guess i'd say that we want a nice feminine surprise when nobody's looking, without sacrificing our identity; like a blowjob from a female coworker. We don't always think that we "belong" this way, we just think that its a nice way to be.

I hope I made sense. If it doesn't make sense to you, well, it's gender theory, it's likely not going to make sense in any of our lifetimes.

-Dru

[Stevenator.]

Dawn was a nice person. 
It’s too bad this chased her away.

[DruLactin]

yeah, too bad, but ultimately her decision. I think Shiraz went a bit far, but even then, if you can't handle firm disagreement, you're the one that needs to change. Its a discussion board, in the end.

Unless there was some abuse going on that i'm missing?

[Shirazmn]

Dawn was a nice person. 
It’s too bad this chased her away.

That post is from April, Dawn kept posting until June. Nobody chased her away.
In April she created another thread asking to remove all of her content, saying that she had been moody, she was sorry, she had no idea of why she couldn't control what she was writing etc... (the thread has been removed after a while).

I have not been rude. I have been direct. True. I am not British enough to hide behind words and I would expect that people on a discussion board, a forum, are able to discuss instead of walking aways as soon as they feel offended when someone disagrees with them.

Then again, what Dawn has posted, and what Drew is doing again, is something we have seen so many times around here. As soon as a trans* person begins the journey of social transition and needs validation, they come here and tell all men that they better realize they are trans*. I understand that social transition is a bitch, particularly when you have foreign hormones flowing through your body and changing the way you handle stress, and I understand that when you convince yourself that transitioning is the best thing to do, you then want to sperad the gospel and validate that notion by getting others to agree. But it's wrong.
Transitioning may be the path for some people. I never discussed one's reasons for transitioning. I don't expect to have to explain multiple times why I won't transition or why I am not trans. The "Males staying Male" section of the site is a place where people give that approach for understood, without having to explain their cis-genderism over and over to anyone.

There was a time, before the MsM section was even added, when every new used that posted an introduction on this site had to endure the same list of questions/challenges: "Are you trans?" "Isn't it better if you just accept and transition?" "When will you start dressing en-femme?" Etc... I have seen many users running away because they came to a forum called "Breast Growth for Genetic Males" and they found themselves in a "Breast Growth for those that we'll push to admit they are Trans" forum. I asked people here to stop jumping at new users' throats with those questions and assumptions because, simply put, they are out of place. There's plenty of TS/TG websites out there that also touch down on breast growth. If people come here is to find a different type of environment, similarly to how the guys on Men wear Bras don't want to hear that they are gay/trans just because they like to wear bras (some with massive boobs, btw).

So, here we are again. Asking another trans person not to assume that all guys here are trans just because that person is. Have you found your way as trans? Good! I am always happy when someone is happier. But please, please, please, stop coming to this area of the website preaching about how in YOUR way to see the world a guy with boobs (gynecomastia is a thing...) has to be a woman, talk about ballet, and stop fixing his car by himself. The same behaviour would not be tolerated in the Transgender section of the site, correctly. Stop doing it here.

[Drew]

Dawn was a nice person. 
It’s too bad this chased her away.

That post is from April, Dawn kept posting until June. Nobody chased her away.
In April she created another thread asking to remove all of her content, saying that she had been moody, she was sorry, she had no idea of why she couldn't control what she was writing etc... (the thread has been removed after a while).

I have not been rude. I have been direct. True. I am not British enough to hide behind words and I would expect that people on a discussion board, a forum, are able to discuss instead of walking aways as soon as they feel offended when someone disagrees with them.

Then again, what Dawn has posted, and what Drew is doing again, is something we have seen so many times around here. As soon as a trans* person begins the journey of social transition and needs validation, they come here and tell all men that they better realize they are trans*. I understand that social transition is a bitch, particularly when you have foreign hormones flowing through your body and changing the way you handle stress, and I understand that when you convince yourself that transitioning is the best thing to do, you then want to sperad the gospel and validate that notion by getting others to agree. But it's wrong.
Transitioning may be the path for some people. I never discussed one's reasons for transitioning. I don't expect to have to explain multiple times why I won't transition or why I am not trans. The "Males staying Male" section of the site is a place where people give that approach for understood, without having to explain their cis-genderism over and over to anyone.

There was a time, before the MsM section was even added, when every new used that posted an introduction on this site had to endure the same list of questions/challenges: "Are you trans?" "Isn't it better if you just accept and transition?" "When will you start dressing en-femme?" Etc... I have seen many users running away because they came to a forum called "Breast Growth for Genetic Males" and they found themselves in a "Breast Growth for those that we'll push to admit they are Trans" forum. I asked people here to stop jumping at new users' throats with those questions and assumptions because, simply put, they are out of place. There's plenty of TS/TG websites out there that also touch down on breast growth. If people come here is to find a different type of environment, similarly to how the guys on Men wear Bras don't want to hear that they are gay/trans just because they like to wear bras (some with massive boobs, btw).

So, here we are again. Asking another trans person not to assume that all guys here are trans just because that person is. Have you found your way as trans? Good! I am always happy when someone is happier. But please, please, please, stop coming to this area of the website preaching about how in YOUR way to see the world a guy with boobs (gynecomastia is a thing...) has to be a woman, talk about ballet, and stop fixing his car by himself. The same behaviour would not be tolerated in the Transgender section of the site, correctly. Stop doing it here.

British enough to hide behind words!!!!

[Drew]

Dawn was a nice person. 
It’s too bad this chased her away.

That post is from April, Dawn kept posting until June. Nobody chased her away.
In April she created another thread asking to remove all of her content, saying that she had been moody, she was sorry, she had no idea of why she couldn't control what she was writing etc... (the thread has been removed after a while).

I have not been rude. I have been direct. True. I am not British enough to hide behind words and I would expect that people on a discussion board, a forum, are able to discuss instead of walking aways as soon as they feel offended when someone disagrees with them.

Then again, what Dawn has posted, and what Drew is doing again, is something we have seen so many times around here. As soon as a trans* person begins the journey of social transition and needs validation, they come here and tell all men that they better realize they are trans*. I understand that social transition is a bitch, particularly when you have foreign hormones flowing through your body and changing the way you handle stress, and I understand that when you convince yourself that transitioning is the best thing to do, you then want to sperad the gospel and validate that notion by getting others to agree. But it's wrong.
Transitioning may be the path for some people. I never discussed one's reasons for transitioning. I don't expect to have to explain multiple times why I won't transition or why I am not trans. The "Males staying Male" section of the site is a place where people give that approach for understood, without having to explain their cis-genderism over and over to anyone.

There was a time, before the MsM section was even added, when every new used that posted an introduction on this site had to endure the same list of questions/challenges: "Are you trans?" "Isn't it better if you just accept and transition?" "When will you start dressing en-femme?" Etc... I have seen many users running away because they came to a forum called "Breast Growth for Genetic Males" and they found themselves in a "Breast Growth for those that we'll push to admit they are Trans" forum. I asked people here to stop jumping at new users' throats with those questions and assumptions because, simply put, they are out of place. There's plenty of TS/TG websites out there that also touch down on breast growth. If people come here is to find a different type of environment, similarly to how the guys on Men wear Bras don't want to hear that they are gay/trans just because they like to wear bras (some with massive boobs, btw).

So, here we are again. Asking another trans person not to assume that all guys here are trans just because that person is. Have you found your way as trans? Good! I am always happy when someone is happier. But please, please, please, stop coming to this area of the website preaching about how in YOUR way to see the world a guy with boobs (gynecomastia is a thing...) has to be a woman, talk about ballet, and stop fixing his car by himself. The same behaviour would not be tolerated in the Transgender section of the site, correctly. Stop doing it here.

So far nothing in this thread I have found offensive am merely trying to understand, thanks for comment's about my post. 
Though I still don't understand this, from my own personal point of view I have altered my body so very much I couldn't possibly consider myself to be fully male. Finding it difficult to imagin that a person could....but am trying.

BUT! Quote.  I am not British enough to hide behind words!

Okay is it very wrong of me now to be offended?

I would say that is very rude, verging on the other r word.