[Nipply Russel]

Thank you for your answers, they are very useful. However, I am seriously thinking about putting aside PM altogether, because it is not normal for me and I was really scared.
I wonder if I am able to achieve the desired effects, e.g. by combining white peony, fenugreek, reishi mushrooms and saw palmetto. I mean mostly changes at the bottom.

I was/am very scared, as well. As much as I want to continue, I'm very concerned. But keep in mind the fact that, as I understand it, proteins produced by your liver in response to female hormones increase the level of clotting that happens in your blood. This means that the other herbs you're talking about could have a similar effect. It stands to reason that the weaker ones (relative to PM) would produce less clotting, but you'd need to know for sure.

As others have mentioned, transdermal dosing of hormone therapy appears to have a greatly reduced affect on liver-produced clotting proteins, as the liver "first-pass effect" is avoided. This would include vaginal/rectal suppositories.

This might help: https://transcare.ucsf.edu/guidelines/fe...ne-therapy

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5366074/
In particular, take a look at "table 2" in this article.

Additionally, people who are concerned about clotting have taken Rutin, an over-the-counter supplement which is notable for its blood thinning effects. If you're on prescription blood thinners, you're already receiving therapy which "prevents" clots.

Having said all of that, please proceed, if at all, with extreme caution. One has to weigh the benefit of the mental well being with the risks associated with taking these compounds.

[Sylvia Coco]

 I was/am very scared, as well. As much as I want to continue, I'm very concerned. But keep in mind the fact that, as I understand it, proteins produced by your liver in response to female hormones increase the level of clotting that happens in your blood. This means that the other herbs you're talking about could have a similar effect. It stands to reason that the weaker ones (relative to PM) would produce less clotting, but you'd need to know for sure.

Thank you for all the replies and for the support I got in these messages. It's not easy, but I don't want to give up NBE and herbs that easily.

Cimetidine - does it cause permanent changes, such as, for example, infertility? Does it affect other female characteristics? What doses are we talking about?

Nipply Russell, I understand what you mean, but I wanted to ask if I only take T blockers alone then I also risk repeating bad memories?

[Nipply Russel]

Nipply Russell, I understand what you mean, but I wanted to ask if I only take T blockers alone then I also risk repeating bad memories?

I'm not sure what you mean by "T blockers". If you're talking about DHT blockers, like reishi or Finasteride, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think they are the problem:
https://newhair.com/baldingblog/can-prop...ood-clots/

[Alexis P]

May i ask Sylvia and Nipply how did you discovered you were having DVT? I mean, there was some clear sign of clotting which made it recognisable? I apologize for this question... but reading these last posts made me anxious about my PM regimen, i just switched to 1000mg and i am developing a lot fear of DVT.

[thegirl1951]

Some time ago I had to stop my experiment because I was hospitalized with blood clots that started to endanger my life.
I don't know if it was related to PM or RR, or maybe SP - I was very happy with the results, especially the ones at the bottom (I noticed, for example, a dark line on the scrotum and on the underside of the penis), erections started to be hard to achieve, and nipples clearly aroused.
I am looking for an answer to the question of what relationship PM, RR or SP may have with my blood clots. Can anyone help? Possibly I am looking for a suggestion what to change when removing, for example, PM from the program.

WRT blood clots:  About 10 years ago I was home alone, my wife was in Europe.  I had a pain in my calf. I laid down and the pain got worst.  I went to WebMd and typed in the symptoms.  A large flashing window came up says "STOP, GO TO THE ER at your local hospital immediately "!!!  I could not get around the ER window to find out why or what was going on.  Long story short, I drove myself to the local ER.  I spent 6 hours in the ER before the doc came in and told me that i had a DVT in my calf and PE (10 blood clots in my lungs).  He was surprised that I was still alive.  I told him about how I used the web to find out what was wrong with me.  He was totally amazed: that I saved my own life and that i was still alive.  Fast forward; I now take 2 anti-blood clot meds.  I was told that I have a genetic defeat that makes me suspectable to blood clots (factor 2). Once you have had a blood clot you are a "marked person" for future blood clots.  Blood clots are nothing to fool around with.  When I think about taking any of these herbs for NBE I check with the web for blood clotting issues (under the interaction heading).  You will be surprised how many of these herbs can effect you clotting ability. If you are taking one of the newer anti-coagulation drugs, be aware you may not know if they are working correctly.  There is no test for this class of drugs to tell if they are working correctly.  I am on warfarin (and a newer drug) and I have my own INR machine.  When I take one of the common herbs used for NBE I check my INR after a couple of days of use.  I adjust my food to either increase or decrease my vitamin K (warfarin responds to vitamin K).

Good luck

TG1951

[Nipply Russel]

My experience was much more recent and much less severe than that experienced by TG1951. I simply felt a lingering soreness in one of my calves. I didn't have the typical swelling, redness or sensation of warmth, just an ache that was still around after almost 10 days. I went to my doctor and he suggest an immediate ultrasound, which identified a clot in my lower leg. He put me on blood thinners and I have follow-up bloodwork and another ultrasound coming up. It appears that I don't have the genetic indicator for future clots, so PM and/or progesterone seems to have caused it.

Going forward, if my condition doesn't require thinners on an ongoing basis, I have to decide if I can proceed "safely." This is why I'm looking into the efficacy and risks associated with transdermal PM intake. An option for future monitoring would be to purchase an inexpensive INR tester and check myself periodically for clotting. Also, taking an herbal thinner like Rutin might mitigate the risk. But that's the crossroads I'm at: is it worth it? It's a big "ugh" for me.

Alexis, if you're young and don't have a history of clots in your family, your level of risk is lower, but you could do some monitoring and/or take Rutin. And again, medical literature seems to point to transdermal dosing as the way to go - with any sort of hormone.

[Drew]

My experience was much more recent and much less severe than that experienced by TG1951. I simply felt a lingering soreness in one of my calves. I didn't have the typical swelling, redness or sensation of warmth, just an ache that was still around after almost 10 days. I went to my doctor and he suggest an immediate ultrasound, which identified a clot in my lower leg. He put me on blood thinners and I have follow-up bloodwork and another ultrasound coming up. It appears that I don't have the genetic indicator for future clots, so PM and/or progesterone seems to have caused it.

Going forward, if my condition doesn't require thinners on an ongoing basis, I have to decide if I can proceed "safely." This is why I'm looking into the efficacy and risks associated with transdermal PM intake. An option for future monitoring would be to purchase an inexpensive INR tester and check myself periodically for clotting. Also, taking an herbal thinner like Rutin might mitigate the risk. But that's the crossroads I'm at: is it worth it? It's a big "ugh" for me.

Alexis, if you're young and don't have a history of clots in your family, your level is risk is lower, but you could do some monitoring and/or take Rutin. And again, medical literature seems to point to transdermal dosing as the way to go - with any sort of hormone.

Okay you are all scaring me quite a lot so will have to shove it all up my bum! I don't like doing that anymore, feels a bit intrusive, well very much so.

[Sylvia Coco]

Beloved, thank you for these answers, they are very useful and competent - I think not only for me, but also for other people interested in NBE.

Nipply Russell, I understand what you mean, but I wanted to ask if I only take T blockers alone then I also risk repeating bad memories?

I'm not sure what you mean by "T blockers". If you're talking about DHT blockers, like reishi or Finasteride, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think they are the problem: https://newhair.com/baldingblog/can-prop...ood-clots/

Nipply Russell - yes, I meant DHT blockers exactly - unfortunately I'm not very familiar with the terminology yet " alt="" title="">

May i ask Sylvia and Nipply how did you discovered you were having DVT? I mean, there was some clear sign of clotting which made it recognisable? I apologize for this question... but reading these last posts made me anxious about my PM regimen, i just switched to 1000mg and i am developing a lot fear of DVT. " alt="" title="" style="max-width: 100%;"> 

Alexis P - unfortunately I had heart problems and clots in the heart, but a few weeks earlier I had back pain at the level of the shoulder blade. I started including calcium in my diet, but apparently not enough. I was taken to the hospital, but luckily everything ended well. I also don't know how much of an influence on my experience was a covid infection that I had some time ago.

WRT blood clots:  About 10 years ago I was home alone, my wife was in Europe.  I had a pain in my calf. I laid down and the pain got worst.  I went to WebMd and typed in the symptoms.  A large flashing window came up says "STOP, GO TO THE ER at your local hospital immediately "!!!  I could not get around the ER window to find out why or what was going on.  Long story short, I drove myself to the local ER.  I spent 6 hours in the ER before the doc came in and told me that i had a DVT in my calf and PE (10 blood clots in my lungs).  He was surprised that I was still alive.  I told him about how I used the web to find out what was wrong with me.  He was totally amazed: that I saved my own life and that i was still alive.  Fast forward; I now take 2 anti-blood clot meds.  I was told that I have a genetic defeat that makes me suspectable to blood clots (factor 2). Once you have had a blood clot you are a "marked person" for future blood clots.  Blood clots are nothing to fool around with.  When I think about taking any of these herbs for NBE I check with the web for blood clotting issues (under the interaction heading).  You will be surprised how many of these herbs can effect you clotting ability. If you are taking one of the newer anti-coagulation drugs, be aware you may not know if they are working correctly.  There is no test for this class of drugs to tell if they are working correctly.  I am on warfarin (and a newer drug) and I have my own INR machine.  When I take one of the common herbs used for NBE I check my INR after a couple of days of use.  I adjust my food to either increase or decrease my vitamin K (warfarin responds to vitamin K).

Good luck

TG1951

thegirl1951 - now I also have INR control and take warfarin, but I don't have a machine at home and need to see a doctor for this. Due to the complexity of this situation, I am afraid to include anything in my diet. I'm afraid NBE isn't just for me.

[thegirl1951]

Beloved, thank you for these answers, they are very useful and competent - I think not only for me, but also for other people interested in NBE.

Nipply Russell, I understand what you mean, but I wanted to ask if I only take T blockers alone then I also risk repeating bad memories?

I'm not sure what you mean by "T blockers". If you're talking about DHT blockers, like reishi or Finasteride, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think they are the problem: https://newhair.com/baldingblog/can-prop...ood-clots/

WRT INR machine.  I got a prescription from my doc and went to Amazon.  I got lucky years ago and was able to get a high quality INR machine for about $600.  I think retail was around $1,000.  I use my machine to adjust my diet. When I started to fool around with these herbs, WebMD said that a number of them will interact with your warfarin.  If you want to continue with NBE you may want to look into getting a machine for home use.  I still get my INR level checked every month, but I use my home machine once a week.  You may tell your doc that you want your own machine for diet reasons, but still go see him/her on a regular basis.  Just a thought.

Good Luck

TG1951

Nipply Russell - yes, I meant DHT blockers exactly - unfortunately I'm not very familiar with the terminology yet " alt="" title="">

May i ask Sylvia and Nipply how did you discovered you were having DVT? I mean, there was some clear sign of clotting which made it recognisable? I apologize for this question... but reading these last posts made me anxious about my PM regimen, i just switched to 1000mg and i am developing a lot fear of DVT. " alt="" title="" style="max-width: 100%;"> 

Alexis P - unfortunately I had heart problems and clots in the heart, but a few weeks earlier I had back pain at the level of the shoulder blade. I started including calcium in my diet, but apparently not enough. I was taken to the hospital, but luckily everything ended well. I also don't know how much of an influence on my experience was a covid infection that I had some time ago.

WRT blood clots:  About 10 years ago I was home alone, my wife was in Europe.  I had a pain in my calf. I laid down and the pain got worst.  I went to WebMd and typed in the symptoms.  A large flashing window came up says "STOP, GO TO THE ER at your local hospital immediately "!!!  I could not get around the ER window to find out why or what was going on.  Long story short, I drove myself to the local ER.  I spent 6 hours in the ER before the doc came in and told me that i had a DVT in my calf and PE (10 blood clots in my lungs).  He was surprised that I was still alive.  I told him about how I used the web to find out what was wrong with me.  He was totally amazed: that I saved my own life and that i was still alive.  Fast forward; I now take 2 anti-blood clot meds.  I was told that I have a genetic defeat that makes me suspectable to blood clots (factor 2). Once you have had a blood clot you are a "marked person" for future blood clots.  Blood clots are nothing to fool around with.  When I think about taking any of these herbs for NBE I check with the web for blood clotting issues (under the interaction heading).  You will be surprised how many of these herbs can effect you clotting ability. If you are taking one of the newer anti-coagulation drugs, be aware you may not know if they are working correctly.  There is no test for this class of drugs to tell if they are working correctly.  I am on warfarin (and a newer drug) and I have my own INR machine.  When I take one of the common herbs used for NBE I check my INR after a couple of days of use.  I adjust my food to either increase or decrease my vitamin K (warfarin responds to vitamin K).

Good luck

TG1951

thegirl1951 - now I also have INR control and take warfarin, but I don't have a machine at home and need to see a doctor for this. Due to the complexity of this situation, I am afraid to include anything in my diet. I'm afraid NBE isn't just for me.

[Sylvia Coco]

I'm still thinking about my desires but I'm really scered on my clotting. So now I would like to ask about creams - they are bypassing liver, as Nipply wrote.

This two:

SWANSON WILD YAM (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Swanson-Wild-Ya...SwxeNgNrSj)

Ivy Maison Bella Cream (https://www.amazon.com/Bella-Natural-Her...B077HPFZNH)

I'm thinking about putting them on my breast and testicles. Do you think it will be safe for my blood clotting and it will works for breast growing and testicle shrinking?