[Isabela]

And what is the effect on the breasts compared to oral intake ?

[Nipply Russel]

anything inserted into your bum is going to want to come back out whether it's self inflicted or from sex it's going to force it's way back out, it has to be held in. So water and a syringe and always ultra sanitary pads are necessary, sorry if I gross people out here but putting anything up your bottom best to have a sanitary pad in your panties just in case.

No offense, Drew, but I disagree. We're only talking about a milliliter or maybe two - just enough to dissolve the powder. And that orifice is, by design, pretty air and water tight, unless your "social agenda" is a bit extreme. It was designed to keep everything in (or out) unless there's either significant pressure or some muscle action from the person it belongs to.

I believe that the PM solution gets absorbed up there within a couple of hours. Powder is a different story, though. Those capsules require significant moisture in order for them to dissolve. Then you have a bunch of powder in an area that isn't exactly "wet", so I don't see dry capsules as a reliable delivery method, despite the simplicity of doing so.

Also, as I understand it, you don't need to inject it "way up there", just a couple of inches.

The challenge for me is having access to the tools to get it done during a time every day when I don't feel there will be any "exits" taking place.

EDIT: I've been off of PM for a few weeks and my body odor and a few other things have changed. My plan is to try this method daily for a couple of weeks. If my PM responses resume, then I know it's working.

[Drew]

anything inserted into your bum is going to want to come back out whether it's self inflicted or from sex it's going to force it's way back out, it has to be held in. So water and a syringe and always ultra sanitary pads are necessary, sorry if I gross people out here but putting anything up your bottom best to have a sanitary pad in your panties just in case.

No offense, Drew, but I disagree. We're only talking about a milliliter or maybe two - just enough to dissolve the powder. And that orifice is, by design, pretty air and water tight, unless your "social agenda" is a bit extreme. It was designed to keep everything in (or out) unless there's either significant pressure or some muscle action from the person it belongs to.

I believe that the PM solution gets absorbed up there within a couple of hours. Powder is a different story, though. Those capsules require significant moisture in order for them to dissolve. Then you have a bunch of powder in an area that isn't exactly "wet", so I don't see dry capsules as a reliable delivery method, despite the simplicity of doing so.

Also, as I understand it, you don't need to inject it "way up there", just a couple of inches.

The challenge for me is having access to the tools to get it done during a time every day when I don't feel there will be any "exits" taking place.

EDIT: I've been off of PM for a few weeks and my body odor and a few other things have changed. My plan is to try this method daily for a couple of weeks. If my PM responses resume, then I know it's working.

ofc I take no offence. I have a very small syringe so my mix of powder to water is about 1:1 but it still wants to exit my body so always ultra is a necessary thing for me just in case it exits. Other exits, well still not wanting to gross ppl out but before I put it up there I do a "wash out" I have a thingy to make myself squeaky clean up there.....oh writing that is just gross, but yes that's what I do.
No not way up there!!!
That won't work, to be able to absorb fully it has to be lower, that's where it works best in the anal cavity, too deep and it's pretty much useless. This isn't a nice subject is it? Not comfortable with writing about what I insert into my bum and how I do it. Alright didn't want to get intimate but squirt a liquid up your bottom, and fart....you had better have a sanitary towel in your panties.

[Alexis P]

 

I believe that the PM solution gets absorbed up there within a couple of hours. Powder is a different story, though. Those capsules require significant moisture in order for them to dissolve. Then you have a bunch of powder in an area that isn't exactly "wet", so I don't see dry capsules as a reliable delivery method, despite the simplicity of doing so.

Also, as I understand it, you don't need to inject it "way up there", just a couple of inches.

The challenge for me is having access to the tools to get it done during a time every day when I don't feel there will be any "exits" taking place.

EDIT: I've been off of PM for a few weeks and my body odor and a few other things have changed. My plan is to try this method daily for a couple of weeks. If my PM responses resume, then I know it's working.

Take care Nipply, remember to keep safe with your health!

But yeah, injecting everyday doesn't seem that much of comfortable but i guess a person could always get used to it? Even more considering it could be "safer" than taking it oral.

Good luck Nipply and make us know how it goes!

[Nipply Russel]

There are some things to think about here:

As Drew points out, you must make sure it ends up in the lower, or "inferior" part of the cavity versus the upper or "superior" part. The lowest 5 cm is where you want it. There are three "levels" of the rectum, each being about 5 cm long. This is not because administering it to the upper portions is "useless"; it has to do with the critical need to bypass some liver metabolism, I think (can't remember). I just did a bunch of research on this and my head is spinning. Here's a note from Wikipedia:

"A drug that is administered rectally will in general (depending on the drug) have a faster onset, higher bioavailability, shorter peak, and shorter duration than oral administration.[1][2] Another advantage of administering a drug rectally, is that it tends to produce less nausea compared to the oral route and prevents any amount of the drug from being lost due to emesis (vomiting). In addition, the rectal route bypasses around two thirds of the first-pass metabolism as the rectum's venous drainage is two thirds systemic (middle and inferior rectal vein) and one third hepatic portal system (superior rectal vein). This means the drug will reach the circulatory system with significantly less alteration and in greater concentrations."

It's a mistake to inject it "as far up there as possible" - might as well take it orally at that point.

There's a potential downside to this concept. As can read above, rectal administration means faster onset and shorter peak. Not sure how that factors into the way estrogen should be absorbed. Does this mean it would be better to "inject" a tiny amount several times a day? That would be unreasonable.

I'm hoping someone with more knowledge on the subject (or willing to do more research) chimes in. With all that being said, taking the supplement Rutin is reported to be effective in preventing clotting issues - and it's way way cheaper than the pharma alternatives.

[thegirl1951]

There are some things to think about here:

As Drew points out, you must make sure it ends up in the lower, or "inferior" part of the cavity versus the upper or "superior" part. The lowest 5 cm is where you want it. There are three "levels" of the rectum, each being about 5 cm long. This is not because administering it to the upper portions is "useless"; it has to do with the critical need to bypass some liver metabolism, I think (can't remember). I just did a bunch of research on this and my head is spinning. Here's a note from Wikipedia:

"A drug that is administered rectally will in general (depending on the drug) have a faster onset, higher bioavailability, shorter peak, and shorter duration than oral administration.[1][2] Another advantage of administering a drug rectally, is that it tends to produce less nausea compared to the oral route and prevents any amount of the drug from being lost due to emesis (vomiting). In addition, the rectal route bypasses around two thirds of the first-pass metabolism as the rectum's venous drainage is two thirds systemic (middle and inferior rectal vein) and one third hepatic portal system (superior rectal vein). This means the drug will reach the circulatory system with significantly less alteration and in greater concentrations."

It's a mistake to inject it "as far up there as possible" - might as well take it orally at that point.

There's a potential downside to this concept. As can read above, rectal administration means faster onset and shorter peak. Not sure how that factors into the way estrogen should be absorbed. Does this mean it would be better to "inject" a tiny amount several times a day? That would be unreasonable.

I'm hoping someone with more knowledge on the subject (or willing to do more research) chimes in. With all that being said, taking the supplement Rutin is reported to be effective in preventing clotting issues - and it's way way cheaper than the pharma alternatives.

Just a thought WRT clotting: wouldn't low dose aspirin (81mg) be effective as an anticoagulant?  I could not find anything about Rutin as an anticoagulant in a quick web search.

[Nipply Russel]

Just a thought WRT clotting: wouldn't low dose aspirin (81mg) be effective as an anticoagulant?  I could not find anything about Rutin as an anticoagulant in a quick web search.

Good thought. As a matter of fact, many docs recommend that for trans patients. But as I understand it, aspirin's effectiveness is limited and of questionable value versus a "proper" pharma blood thinner. But Rutin supposedly rivals pharma in the blood thinning department.

Check this out: https://moderntranshormones.com/2017/11/...e-therapy/

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2...ood-clots/

https://www.healthline.com/health/potent...s-of-rutin

[Isabela]

There's a potential downside to this concept. As can read above, rectal administration means faster onset and shorter peak. Not sure how that factors into the way estrogen should be absorbed. Does this mean it would be better to "inject" a tiny amount several times a day? That would be unreasonable.

I'm hoping someone with more knowledge on the subject (or willing to do more research) chimes in. With all that being said, taking the supplement Rutin is reported to be effective in preventing clotting issues - and it's way way cheaper than the pharma alternatives.

Well, I guess building breast tissue means binding estrogen receptors in the breast. May be this has nothing to do with the estrogen peak in the bloodstream, besides all hormones are likely to be pulsating, may be being high estrogen all the time doesn't help.

[Nipply Russel]

Well, I guess building breast tissue means binding estrogen receptors in the breast. May be this has nothing to do with the estrogen peak in the bloodstream, besides all hormones are likely to be pulsating, may be being high estrogen all the time doesn't help.

...and I had a thought last night. Estrogen injections aren't time-release, are they? That "peak" is ok, so why wouldn't this be? You know whose input I'd love to get on this? Lotus's.

[Lotus]

Well, I guess building breast tissue means binding estrogen receptors in the breast. Maybe this has nothing to do with the estrogen peak in the bloodstream, besides all hormones are likely to be pulsating, may be being high estrogen all the time doesn't help.

...and I had a thought last night. Estrogen injections aren't time-release, are they? That "peak" is ok, so why wouldn't this be? You know whose input I'd love to get on this? Lotus's.

Hey there Nipply. 



MTF TRANS HORMONAL THERAPY
HRT. Options, Best Practices, and some other semi-related stuff…
https://moderntranshormones.com/2017/11/...estrogens/



From my experience IM (intramuscular) worked the best for me. I would take a .25 ml injection per week of EV (estradiol valerate). Believe or not there's a micronized rectal estradiol suppository. Pueraria mirifica needs liver activation for the chromene compound miroestrol/deoxymiroestrol to become active...it has to activate certain enzymes to become biologically active. 


Requirement of metabolic activation for estrogenic activity of Pueraria mirifica
Y S Lee et al. J Vet Sci. 2002 Dec.

Abstract
A wide range of chemicals derived from plant and human-made xenobiotics are reported to have hormonal activities. The present study was performed to examine the estrogenic effect of Kwao Keur, Pueraria mirifica (PM), that has been used as a rejuvenating folk medicine in Thailand, using recombinant yeast, MCF-7 cell proliferation and HepG2 cell transient transfection assay. In recombinant yeast assay, 0.025, 0.25, 2.5, 25, 2.5 x 10(2), 2.5 x 10(3), 2.5 x 10(4) ng/ml concentrations of PM did not show any estrogenic activities, while 10(-9) of 17 beta-estradiol (positive control) showed high estrogenic activity. Estrogenic activities were induced at 2.5 ng/ml to 25 microg/ml concentrations of PM in a dose-dependent manner on MCF-7 cells and the estrogenic effect of PM was blocked by tamoxifen treatment, a well-known anti-estrogen. PM also showed estrogenic effect on human hepatoma cell line, HepG2 cells, containing estrogen receptor and luciferase reporter gene. Taken together, PM in itself may have no estrogenicity in yeast system, but it has estrogenicity in MCF-7 & HepG2 cells that have human metabolic enzymes. The results indicated that PM may require metabolic activation for estrogenic activity.

And also was reported here:

Pueraria mirifica. Metabolic activation promotes estrogenic activity.
https://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=20349&page=2&highlight=Activation

Have you tried a rectal suppository method?. Coconut oil or olive oil (heated) make decent carrier oil for suppositories. Just mix the PM in the heated oil and pour into a suppository mold and freeze. Then upon administration, put a dab of oil on the tip and insert. Use finger cots or disposable vinyl gloves. See, the aqueous version (warm water w/pm) may not pass into the digestive tract as effectively as PM w/a carrier oil. Meaning the carrier oil (fats) diffuse easier over the cell membrane (receptor)...in fact, one should take NBE with an oil. So, I think you're wanting a slower release that has higher bioavailability...try using the suppository administration and see if it works out.


Absorption from aqueous and alcoholic solutions may occur very rapidly, which has proved to be of considerable therapeutic value in the rapid suppression of acute convulsive attacks by diazepam (e.g. in children), but absorption from suppositories is generally slower and very much dependent on the nature of the suppository base, the use of surfactants or other additives, particle size of the active ingredient, etc.

Rectal drug administration: clinical pharmacokinetic considerations
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6126289/