[Pansy-Mae]

Wild Yam and Progesterone creams are NOT the same thing.

Wild Yam is a source of Diosgenin, which in turn is a raw material component in the laboratory manufacture of nature identical Progesterone.
There is NO known biochemical pathway in the human body to convert Wild Yam/ Diosgenin into Progesterone.

You need to find a source of "Nature Identical Progesterone USP"   (USP stand s for United States Pharmacopeia and indicates its quality/purity).

[AliceDydro]

I was going to post the same info. The Wikipedia article on diosgenin lists that

Diosgenin is a precursor for several hormones, starting with the Marker degradation process, which includes synthesis of progesterone.^[4] The process was used in the early manufacturing of combined oral contraceptive pills.^[5]

There is no known process in the human body to convert diosgenin into hormones. It has to be done in a manufacturing lab setting.

My experience with Progesterone cream is that it significantly lowers my Testosterone and DHT levels. I feel lethargic starting about 12 hours to 60 hours after. Taking boron 3mg several times before and after the cream is applied helps lower SHBG, which means the existing Testosterone stays longer, but because any new production is temporarily stopped I cannot avoid the lethargy. Over time the occasional use seems to lower T levels, which I want to avoid. Some of the most anti-androgenic drugs are in the Progestin class, like Spironolactone.

I switched to oral Dydrogesterone 10mg because I hated the anti-androgenic effects of Progesterone. Dydrogesterone is Progesterone that is molecularly modified, and it has minimal off-target activity. If Progesterone lowers DHT by 100%, Dydrogesterone only does it by 17%, without lowering T nor raising SHBG. I take one 10mg Dydrogesterone weekly or twice a week to cycle it and avoid the long-term potential for harm that other DHT-lowering medications can cause. My growth since has been incredible.

The best use of Progesterone cream might be to help promote growth in the smaller side breast.

[Dibraru]

I was going to post the same info. The Wikipedia article on diosgenin lists that

Diosgenin is a precursor for several hormones, starting with the Marker degradation process, which includes synthesis of progesterone.^[4] The process was used in the early manufacturing of combined oral contraceptive pills.^[5]

There is no known process in the human body to convert diosgenin into hormones. It has to be done in a manufacturing lab setting.

My experience with Progesterone cream is that it significantly lowers my Testosterone and DHT levels. I feel lethargic starting about 12 hours to 60 hours after. Taking boron 3mg several times before and after the cream is applied helps lower SHBG, which means the existing Testosterone stays longer, but because any new production is temporarily stopped I cannot avoid the lethargy. Over time the occasional use seems to lower T levels, which I want to avoid. Some of the most anti-androgenic drugs are in the Progestin class, like Spironolactone.

I switched to oral Dydrogesterone 10mg because I hated the anti-androgenic effects of Progesterone. Dydrogesterone is Progesterone that is molecularly modified, and it has minimal off-target activity. If Progesterone lowers DHT by 100%, Dydrogesterone only does it by 17%, without lowering T nor raising SHBG. I take one 10mg Dydrogesterone weekly or twice a week to cycle it and avoid the long-term potential for harm that other DHT-lowering medications can cause. My growth since has been incredible.

The best use of Progesterone cream might be to help promote growth in the smaller side breast.

That sounds really promising, since I want to keep my lower parts working as much as possible. Where do you buy 

Dydrogesteron? Same as Progesterone it is not available in my country without prescription. 

Thanks for all the amazing information  " alt="" title="">
Dibraru

[Lotus]

Personally?, I would never use synthetic progestin because of the increased side effects. Men have a much higher risk than women developing DVT (deep vein thrombosis).

Cleveland Clinic states progestin in the higher doses used to treat abnormal vaginal bleeding has been shown to increase the risk of thrombosis five- to six-fold. Which translates to 500%-600% increased risk. Now throw in high risk factors like increased BMI, heart disease, diabetes, previous DVTs and going over the recommended amounts and the risk is even higher. 


Risk of Venous Thromboembolic Disease Associated With Hormonal Contraceptives and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Oral contraceptive pills that contain third-generation progestins (desogestrel or gestodene) seem to be associated with greater VTE risk than those that contain levonorgestrel.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/217495

Source bioidentical micronized progesterone, either in pill or cream form. Transdermal PC (progesterone cream) as used for breast growth (as seen below has a much higher bioavailability than oral tablets. A few takeaways using PC, 

1. Inhibit breast DHT
   
2. Initiate side branching
   
3. PC resets estrogen receptors
   
4. Synergistic when used with estradiol (for breast growth).
   
5. Don't use wild yam cream 
   

Androgens from the adrenal pathway (DHEA & DHEAS) go through a back door of sorts to 4 Dione (androstenedione), which in turn can be synthesized by aromatase to E1. 

Btw, did you know that the skin acts as one big hormone receptor!, that's right, beneath the layers of skin sits all the hormone molecules. Estrogens sit inside the fat tissues (aka adipose), the process of first pass metabolism is generally ignored, meaning the liver. And in this case offers one of the biggest opportunities to get at hormones that are in the "free" state (the active hormones). 
This illustrates a transdermal application, but you get the idea. Transdermal applications are 60-90% efficacy vs 10-20% of oral consumption. 

[Lotus]

Additionally, raising SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) keeps testosterone on the opposite end of SHBD...meaning in the cellar. That's the potentation of using bio-indentical PC...which uses micronized progesterone. Wild Yam is not bioidentical progesterone.

So, changing SHBG favors feminization because SHBG inhibits the synthesis of DHT. In other words, raising can stop DHT from being sent in blood throughout to the body to target tissues...e.g. testes, breasts, fat cells etc. Basically, SHBG can be considered as an estrogen amplifier.

[AliceDydro]

Dydrogesterone is an atypical progestin, in that it has very little activity on other receptors. It is well-absorbed via the oral route compared to Progesterone. From Wikipedia:

Dydrogesterone is synthesized and manufactured by treatment of progesterone with ultraviolet light exposure.^[43]

The study you linked to does not specially mention Dydrogesterone at all.

In one that does from the BMJ, it found:

Compared with no exposure, conjugated equine oestrogen with medroxyprogesterone acetate had the highest risk (2.10, 1.92 to 2.31), and estradiol with dydrogesterone had the lowest risk (1.18, 0.98 to 1.42).

It also mentions:

Two French studies investigated VTE risks associated with different pharmacological classes of progestogens and found that pregnane progesterones including dydrogesterone and medroxyprogesterone acetate were not associated with increased VTE risk. 16 17 However, these two studies were insufficiently powered and produced findings with wide confidence intervals.

So it seems that CEE (conjugated equine estrogen) is a significant factor in the risk, rather than Dydrogesterone itself.

Another study from 2009 says that DYD is as safe as Progesterone when taken with Estradiol. From the Abstract:

According to the Women's Health Initiative (WHI) study, the most important risks during combined hormone replacement therapy (HRT) are breast cancer, stroke and venous thromboembolism. To date, combinations of estradiol with natural progesterone or its retroisomer dydrogesterone are the only combined HRT regimens for which large case–control or cohort studies show no increase in any of these three risks. Moreover, due to the neutral effect of dydrogesterone on the vascular and metabolic systems, the preventive effect of the estradiol component with respect to myocardial infarction and metabolic syndrome can be maintained if HRT is started early after the menopause.

There was a well-referenced chart on Wikipedia that appears it was removed because the study it quotes is behind a paywall. It lists many Progestins and their relative impacts.

[AliceDydro]

I don't want to lower my T levels, nor impact my male performance. I'm very much in the camp of wanting boobs without the feminized body.

My stack includes:

Clomid 50mg, three times a week. (Clomid is an Estrogen receptor agonist when Estrogen levels are low.)

Dydrogesterone 10mg, once a week, usually after work on Friday. (DYD works almost exclusively on Progesterone receptors.)

Ketoconazole shampoo applied to the breasts during showers. (Ketoconazole is an androgen receptor antagonist, and seems to slow hair growth on areas where it is applied.)

MSM 3000mg, twice daily, with 500mg Vitamin C along with it for absorption. (It doesn't work for everyone, but some women have significant growth with it.)

MSM Cream with Peppermint Oil, Tea Tree Oil, Lavender, etc; applied to the nipples and areolas occasionally.

Fish Oil, 8 pills per day.

If I've been off Clomid for a few days I sometimes use a topical estrogen cream with boron pills.

Everyone's journey is different. My regime works for me.

[Dibraru]

So which one has now less side effects progesterone or Dydrogesterone?

[AliceDydro]

So which one has now less side effects progesterone or Dydrogesterone?

I would say oral Dydrogesterone, since it does not impact much beyond Progesterone receptors and a slight bit of DHT decrease.

Lotus seems to suggest Progesterone cream is more effective because it decreases DHT and T levels more.

I think either would be worth trying in your case, both are useful. 

[Dibraru]

So which one has now less side effects progesterone or Dydrogesterone?

I would say oral Dydrogesterone, since it does not impact much beyond Progesterone receptors and a slight bit of DHT decrease.

Lotus seems to suggest Progesterone cream is more effective because it decreases DHT and T levels more.

I think either would be worth trying in your case, both are useful. 

Ok thanks. Since I am still waiting for PM to arrive, I still have time to look what I want to add for better growth