[Lotus]

Thanks Stevenator for the valuable information on DES, that link is better than anything I could've supplied. Boomers should read that information, it definitely paints a picture of health issues caused by pregnant mothers who were given DES, I should know lol, I'm a boomer...like many folks here from that era.

Hi Alexis, I could never find an all in one "Calcium/Magnesium/Vit D3/zinc" supplement that was specific to my needs. And for that matter I went with the following:

Calcium Citrate, calcium carbonate is too harsh on my digestion.

Magnesium Malate, as it provides more free magnesium...see attached link for other benefits.
What Is Magnesium Malate, and Does It Have Benefits?
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/magnesium-malate

Over 640mg of magnesium can stimulate Testosterone. 

Vitamin D3 in organic olive oil.

Look up the vitamins as to whether they increase T. 

Zinc will increase testosterone on 3mg of zinc, though will eliminate DHT with 160mg of zinc. 

The reason for separating the vitamins is clear (to me), is the fillers and binders. For example, one particular Calcium/mag/D3 supplement has PEG, short for polyethylene glycol, titanium dioxide, yellow #40, etc etc.

Why is this crap in our supplements?, the human body doesn't require it, 

Polyethylene Glycols and Polysorbates are in the current vaccines, I'm sure the skin reactions people develop after getting the vaccine is from PEG-Polyethylene Glycols and Polysorbate. What happens when someone who's had Shingles HZ (herpes-zoster) takes the vaccine?, I'll share a separate study in a small group of healthy women who developed HZ after getting the vaccine later. There's gotta be a better carrier to protect the vaccine mRNA for cell diffusion than using PEG. This first study was published during the trial study of the vaccines. The second study is from 2019 clearly defining hypersensitivity to PEG. I'm not advocating for or against the vaccines, just supplying information. 

 Suspicions grow that nanoparticles in Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine trigger rare allergic reactions
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/...-reactions

Immediate Hypersensitivity to Polyethylene Glycols and Polysorbates: More Common Than We Have Recognized
Cosby A Stone Jr et al. J Allergy Clin Immunol Pract. May-Jun 2019.
Free PMC article
Abstract

Background: The most common immediate hypersensitivity to macrogols is associated with polyethylene glycol (PEG) 3350; however, the epidemiology, mechanisms, and cross-reactivity are poorly understood. Thousands of medications contain either PEGs or structurally similar polysorbates.

Objective: Our objective was to better understand the mechanism, cross-reactivity, and scope of PEG hypersensitivity.

Methods: Two cases with a past history of immediate hypersensitivity to PEG-containing medications were used to study potential mechanisms and cross-reactivity of immediate reactions to PEG 3350. Skin testing and oral challenges with PEG and polysorbate-containing agents were employed to determine clinical reactivity and cross-reactivity between the 2 allergens. Enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay and electrochemiluminescent immunoassay were used to detect anti-PEG specific IgG and IgE, respectively, using PEGylated protein or PEG alone as antigens in 2 cases and 6 PEG 3350 tolerant controls. We searched US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) adverse event reports for immediate reactions to PEG 3350 to determine the potential scope of this problem in the United States.

Results: Skin and provocation testing demonstrated symptomatic reactivity in both cases to PEG 3350 and polysorbate 80. Plasma samples were positive for anti-PEG specific IgE and IgG antibodies only in cases and binding increased directly proportional to the molecular weight of PEG tested. FDA adverse event reports revealed 53 additional cases of possible PEG 3350 anaphylaxis.

Conclusions: Immediate hypersensitivity to PEG 3350 with cross-reactive polysorbate 80 hypersensitivity may be underrecognized in clinical practice and can be detected with clinical skin testing. Our studies raise the possibility of an IgE-mediated type I hypersensitivity mechanism in some cases.

[Stevenator.]

You just called me old.  

[Stevenator.]

You’re welcomed Lotus, but in all seriousness, when I realized the DES connection with LGBT, I was dumbstruck that it was so obvious and an Ah-HA moment! I’m sure there are many more discoveries to be made. 

When people question why there has been an explosion in Transgender and LGBT in general, take a closer look at this drug. Not only were they bombarding fetuses with Estrogen, they were putting it into the food supply as well.

[Alexis P]

Thanks Lotus for the answer!
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be a decent supplement of calcium citrate because the best in price and calcium amount are all using calcium carbonate. Also Magnesium Malate doesn't appear on the supplements i've seen, but rather it is replaced by Magnesium Oxide.
Good thing is that it doesn't seem to have any PEG or titanium dioxide, yellow #40, etc etc.
I fear i might not have fully understood what you were trying to say here, i apologize. I still feel confused and unsure on whether i should base my choice.

[Lotus]

My apologies for making it confusing Alexis. When sourcing herbal supplements I look for the cleanest amount of ingredients. For example, if you see rice flour or maltodextrin (in the other ingredients section) they stimulate insulin, and as we know stimulating insulin triggers testosterone. 

Calcium citrate and magnesium malate are better forms than calcium carbonate & magnesium oxide, meaning less side effects and more benefits.

If you can't source citrate and malate then the carbonate and oxide will do. Or look at plant sources like this one below would work, though I'm not thrilled about the silica, it can cause skin hypersensitivity irritations...I'm allergic to it. One final piece of advice, source products with the least amount of fillers and binders, and if you're unsure about a supplement please post a link so i can check it out for you...or anyone else. Your digestion will thank you. . 

https://www.amazon.com/NATURELO-Bone-Strength-Plant-Based-Ingredients/dp/B0716RWHX4/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=naturelo+bone+strength+plant+calcium+complex&qid=1619722336&sprefix=NATURELO&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A2W6BBFZZER1R5&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE4VzlWOTJSN0dIODAmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA0MDk2MTUxUFRCS0JOOExFUTFNJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3NTAwNTkyUEtCN0RJOVdVVFpSJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfcGhvbmVfc2VhcmNoX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

[Lotus]

You just called me old.  

Aw snap, did i?. You ever run into an old timer and they'd say "hell, you just a baby" when they find out your age?...soon it'll be us saying the same dang thing. 

[Stevenator.]

I think I recall you saying that to me once before,
but that’s Okay. I’m attracted to older women.
Like they say, respect your elders.
Plus, I have a thing for old strippers.

[Alexis P]

My apologies for making it confusing Alexis. When sourcing herbal supplements I look for the cleanest amount of ingredients. For example, if you see rice flour or maltodextrin (in the other ingredients section) they stimulate insulin, and as we know stimulating insulin triggers testosterone. 

Calcium citrate and magnesium malate are better forms than calcium carbonate & magnesium oxide, meaning less side effects and more benefits.

If you can't source citrate and malate then the carbonate and oxide will do. Or look at plant sources like this one below would work, though I'm not thrilled about the silica, it can cause skin hypersensitivity irritations...I'm allergic to it. One final piece of advice, source products with the least amount of fillers and binders, and if you're unsure about a supplement please post a link so i can check it out for you...or anyone else. Your digestion will thank you. . 

Thank you Lotus <3
Yeah unfortunately Amazon is pretty limited here, so most of Calcium supplements does have only calcium carbonate. I only found one based on calcium citrate, but the amount of calcium delivered was way less (380mg compared to 800/1000 mg of others supplements).
I'll post here the links of the two supplements i found (and considered best), the first one has more vitamins and other substances, while the second is pretty simple and has only Calcium and Vit D3.

• nutraVita Calcium, Magnesium Zinc + Vitamin D3
  
• GloryFeel Calcium 1000mg + Vitamin D3
  

Pages are in Italian, but the pictures with the ingredients are in English.
I haven't felt bad with Calcium Carbonate, so i guess i can keep going on it?

[guy_and_lingerie]

Hi!
I need sone help here like everyone else!

I was on a cycle of 2 mg/day of estradiol for 6 months and stopped about 3 weeks ago. I am now back on fenugreek at 1240mg, three times a day.

I was considering going back on 1 mg of estradiol once a day, say at night time, along with the fenugreek, possibly altering the dosage amount of the fenugreek.

Do you think the two would cancel each other out or would the estradiol help?

Many thanks!
Joey

[Lotus]

Hi Joey,

I don't think you should coalesce E2 and FG, meaning they both are competing for the same estrogen receptor. Here's some notes I made some years ago about how FG stimulates E2 (estradiol). Plus, one glaring no-no for me is that FG can lower SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) via in favor of T. SHBG transports hormones in the blood to various tissue receptors. SHBG is like a ying/yang scenario. Meaning (for example) when estradiol is high SHBG will be high (verified by a blood test, and thus T will be low). E2 will keep SHBG high, favoring breast growth. 

IMHO, choose one or the other, and stick with it. Though don't forget the PC. 

I posted this last year, take a look at the diagram in table 2, in specifically the increase in dhea, progesterone, FSH (follicle stimulating hormone...a pure aromatase imo) testosterone and prolactin, respectively. From the study I believe the bump in libido comes from DHEA (similar to maca), however, the way FG increases E2 (dramatically in month 2) comes from its aromatase capabilities (from multiple pathways I believe), but mostly from FSH.

Influence of a Specialized Trigonella foenum- graecum Seed Extract (Libifem), on Testosterone, Estradiol and Sexual Function in Healthy Menstruating Women, a Randomised Placebo Controlled Study 
_________________________
The aim of the study was to evaluate the effect of Trigonellafoenum-graecum (fenugreek) seed extract on sex hormones and sexual function in healthy menstruating women who reported low sexual drive. This short term, single site, double blind, randomised, placebo-controlled study was conducted on 80 women, aged 20 to 49 years. Participants were randomised to either an oral dose of a standardised T. foenum-graecum seed extract (libifem) at a dose of 600 mg/day or placebo over two menstrual cycles. Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, progesterone, androstenedione, total and free testosterone, estradiol (E2), luteinizing hormone, follicle stimulating hormone, sex hormone binding globulin and cholesterol were measured at baseline and 8 weeks. The individual aspects of sexual function were measured using the Derogatis interview for sexual functioning and female sexual function index self-administered questionnaires. Stress, fatigue and quality of the relationship with partners were also measured using the PSS (Perceived Stress Scale), MFI-20 (Multidimensional Fatigue Inventory) and DAS (Dyadic Adjustment Scale) quality of life measures, respectively. There was a significant increase in free testosterone and E2 in the active group as well as sexual desire and arousal compared with the placebo group. The results indicate that this extract of T. foenum-graecum may be a useful treatment for increasing sexual arousal and desire in women. Copyright © 2015 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd. 
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Lui...-Study.pdf

Well yeah, but judging from this study FG pretty much upregulates everything, see here:  

.
Administration of T. foenum-graecum seed extract was also associated with a significant increase in E2 levels. Estradiol stimulates vaginal lubrication and blood flow, affecting a woman’s capacity for sexual arousal and orgasm (Simon, 2011); this supports the significant positive change in sexual arousal observed. Whilst the mechanism of the increase in E2 levels is unclear from the current study, one possibility is due to increased aromatase activity that converts testosterone to E2.

my interpretation of how FG increases E2 is explained above.