[Siman234]

Hi, I've been on herbal supplements for about 3-4 years, and just recently have finally properly transitioned to full blown hrt and it's definitely been coming along.

My band size is 36 inch, and around my chest is 41. I fit a 38B bra, and probably a smaller band would work too.

However I'm curious what's in store for me going forward and if there's anything I can do to optimize the growth. My breasts have started filling out instead of poking out lately, and I'm curious if there's anything I can do to make sure they get as big as they can.

I'm currently on 2mg sublingually of estrofem with 2 1mg supplements per day, and 12.5mg of Cyproterone per day.

I've heard progesterone can help, but I've also heard growth can continue for years, and I was wondering if there was any scientifically backed literature or anecdotal evidence for either of those. I'm definitely trying to maximize what I've got.

For what it's worth I'm a bit on the heavier side, and have been trying to lose and gain weight to redistribute it around my body.

Thanks for any help!

[Happyme]

Calling Didi, Calling Didi

In the mean time you can search for Didi, and her story will answer all your questions.
Bobbi

[Heaven's Night]

Oh wow, Bobbi is putting a lot of faith in me it seems.

Welcome to BN, your path so far sounds quite similar to mine. If you have the time, go read my threads, there's a lot of in detail stuff there and search everything from Lotus.

You're on 2mg per day only? I would suggest upping the dose perhaps as 2mg isn't much at all, are you DIY or not? If not, talk this with your endo. Progesterone can help a lot, I've done the cream and even that I think has rounded mine and filled them up a bit, but suppository PG would be way way better. I'm not on that yet, but I'm planning to do that maybe this time next year. Right now I'm trying to let E do all it can to make me grow.

I'm currently on 16ml or 6,4mg injectable EV once every three days, 12,5mg Androcur per day, one 500mg cap of Red reishi extract pills.(Nukes DHT.) Also calcium + magnesium supplement and then there's a simple one which can benefit you. Vitamin D3 and MSM, that's almost guaranteed to give your breasts a boost, works fine along HRT. Then my latest experiment is a tincture made with Caynne extract, Ginseng extract and lemon juice. This stuff is supposed to help burn belly fat and boost breast development, I'm only one week in with it so no definitive data on its effectiveness.

If you want more details, pm me or dig up my threads here. I HIGHLY recommend reading everything and anything from Lotus as she's got her information together very well. I've done mostly all herbal stuff by her advice and got quite good results. Oh and I also massage daily and use Nooleberry pump once every few days.

I've been quite lucky with breast growth, bit over two years ago I was nearly flat and my bra size currently is 38/85 G. I have put a lot of stuff found here on BN to the test and found quite a lot which has worked nicely, I'm glad to share all that information, good things are worth putting forward. I hope you'll have fun time on your journey. <3

[Siman234]

Oh wow, Bobbi is putting a lot of faith in me it seems. " alt="" title="">

Welcome to BN, your path so far sounds quite similar to mine. If you have the time, go read my threads, there's a lot of in detail stuff there and search everything from Lotus.

You're on 2mg per day only? I would suggest upping the dose perhaps as 2mg isn't much at all, are you DIY or not? If not, talk this with your endo. Progesterone can help a lot, I've done the cream and even that I think has rounded mine and filled them up a bit, but suppository PG would be way way better. I'm not on that yet, but I'm planning to do that maybe this time next year. Right now I'm trying to let E do all it can to make me grow. " alt="" title="">

I'm currently on 16ml or 6,4mg injectable EV once every three days, 12,5mg Androcur per day, one 500mg cap of Red reishi extract pills.(Nukes DHT.) Also calcium + magnesium supplement and then there's a simple one which can benefit you. Vitamin D3 and MSM, that's almost guaranteed to give your breasts a boost, works fine along HRT. Then my latest experiment is a tincture made with Caynne extract, Ginseng extract and lemon juice. This stuff is supposed to help burn belly fat and boost breast development, I'm only one week in with it so no definitive data on its effectiveness.

If you want more details, pm me or dig up my threads here. I HIGHLY recommend reading everything and anything from Lotus as she's got her information together very well. I've done mostly all herbal stuff by her advice and got quite good results. Oh and I also massage daily and use Nooleberry pump once every few days.

I've been quite lucky with breast growth, bit over two years ago I was nearly flat and my bra size currently is 38/85 G. I have put a lot of stuff found here on BN to the test and found quite a lot which has worked nicely, I'm glad to share all that information, good things are worth putting forward. I hope you'll have fun time on your journey. <3

I am on DIY, heard about upping dosage, but wasn't sure when to do it, especially since I order my estrogen in 6 month bulk, and doubling my dosage now would mean this will only last 3 months, but if 6 months is the time to up it, I definitely can! Regarding that though, I've seen some sources that seem to imply that estrogen dose does not effect breast growth on the macro scale of a few years, is that true, and would upping my dosage help... and is the it the time to do it?

My notes and results on Progesterone were also inconclusive, with a lot of anecdotal evidence, very curious about it though and would like to move onto it if it can help round it out, because they've grown out, just not as full as I would want, a long way off from cleavage.

I also don't entirely want to destroy my male sexual drive because I do want parts of it, and aren't interested in orchiectomy yet. I'm still adjusting to the feeling of cyproterone as is.

My main questions involve when I should be doing things, whether it be adding progesterone or upping my dosage. I feel a lot of what I can do at this point is done regarding non-supplemental stuff, and it's these simple to decide changes regarding dose and maybe vitamin supplements that will change the way.

I am interested in losing visceral body fat, so I'm interested in listening to how that lemon juice setup goes.

Another question, from what I can find vitamin d3 helps your body absorb calcium, I already drink an absurd amount of milk as is, usually 2 liters a day, which I think would cover any calcium absorption issues. Would D3 help with breast growth if it's focused on calcium? Or is the d3+msm something more than just calcium absorption?

I forgot to mention I do take 800mg's worth of Omega3 daily as well, but that'd be it as for the rest of my vitamin intake.

Either way will definitely read through these threads. interested in getting as much as I can out of my chest as course. My main questions at the moment are about when I should take progesterone, and when or if I should up my estrogen dosage. I'm trying to keep it a bit simpler to the main, estrogen, anti androgen, and a progesterone at some point. so I don't have to wake up every day and take more than a few pills. Also so I can focus on the most important supplements that will do 90% of the job. Very interested in anything else like a supplement that can have that big of an effect if there is one. Thanks so much for the help, I'll check back in on this thread tomorrow!

I'm personally proud of what I've been able to do on my own so far over these past few years...It may have been influenced by me starting when I was 17 and keeping some estrogenic pressure from then until now, almost storing my growth hormones which is why I have what I do. I've heard stories of most mtf not being able to get more than AAA cups, and I'm sitting here with a less than full 36DD and that's already a lot to feel proud of... but I never said it was enough yet. It's the moon or bust.

[Heaven's Night]

I would say you can definitely go on a higher dose of E for sure.

D3 from what I know works in conjunction with MSM which has quite a list of health effects, from the top of my head it keeps human growth hormone level high which of course helps with breasts growth and then there was something else... One of Lotus's threads had this explained quite well. And yea, taking D3 helps MSM do its job and also deals with absorbing calcium better so dual effect there. Anyways, d3 + MSM is something that can make a difference. Its obviously helped me and at least several others. I noted obvious difference when I started it, changes got faster. So that's something to look into.

Yea the Ginseng & Cayenne & Lemon juice thing is quite interesting, I will quote what Lotus told me about it below:

To list all the science here would take a while, so I’ll summarize. The cayenne tincture reduces stomach fat
(central obesity) initiates aromatase via the conversion of cortisone to cortisol via 11-beta HSD
(Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, yes, this is new science) in breast tissue. Trust me, it gets more complicated from here.
And ginseng initiates the cAMP/PKA/CREB pathway which is a major breast growing pathway.
The ginsenoside’s in ginseng inhibits glucocorticoids, which is beneficial for breast growth.

So you make a liquid tincture with these, meaning 1 full dropper of each with 6-8oz of water,
squeeze in 1/2 of a ? (lemon, which lemon are acidic outside the body but alkalizing in the body...plus it inhibits T).
Do this 1-2x per day, and watch the tummy disappear, and help with breast growth.

Anyways, I'll be updating possible progress on my thread, so keep an eye on it.

Seems like you've done great progress already.

[Siman234]

I would say you can definitely go on a higher dose of E for sure. " alt="" title="">

D3 from what I know works in conjunction with MSM which has quite a list of health effects, from the top of my head it keeps human growth hormone level high which of course helps with breasts growth and then there was something else... One of Lotus's threads had this explained quite well. And yea, taking D3 helps MSM do its job and also deals with absorbing calcium better so dual effect there. Anyways, d3 + MSM is something that can make a difference. Its obviously helped me and at least several others. I noted obvious difference when I started it, changes got faster. So that's something to look into.

Yea the Ginseng & Cayenne & Lemon juice thing is quite interesting, I will quote what Lotus told me about it below:

To list all the science here would take a while, so I’ll summarize. The cayenne tincture reduces stomach fat
(central obesity) initiates aromatase via the conversion of cortisone to cortisol via 11-beta HSD
(Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, yes, this is new science) in breast tissue. Trust me, it gets more complicated from here.
And ginseng initiates the cAMP/PKA/CREB pathway which is a major breast growing pathway.
The ginsenoside’s in ginseng inhibits glucocorticoids, which is beneficial for breast growth.

So you make a liquid tincture with these, meaning 1 full dropper of each with 6-8oz of water,
squeeze in 1/2 of a ? (lemon, which lemon are acidic outside the body but alkalizing in the body...plus it inhibits T).
Do this 1-2x per day, and watch the tummy disappear, and help with breast growth.

Anyways, I'll be updating possible progress on my thread, so keep an eye on it. " alt="" title="">

Seems like you've done great progress already.

Ok two more questions, is there any reason not to raise the estrogen level? Again from what I've found it doesn't SEEM to influence breast growth, just the speed of it. From the research I found. Also 4mg orally seems to be the max dosage recommended, should I look into 3mg per day for instance, or just go all the way?

And regarding the D3+MSM, is there any sort of pill to find for it? This is the only one I've seen so far.

Consider me a bit skeptical on the lemon juice but there is a lot of logic behind it, will definitely watch and see how that functions for you, and to read other writing on it.

[Heaven's Night]

Afaik, speeding things up and testosterone suppression are the reasons to up the E dose, you're correct, estrogen levels do not have to do with the growth potential, that's about genetics. But the growth happens faster/easier when the levels are higher and T/DHT is suppressed obviously. Specially DHT is important to get out of the equation. (Red reishi works well on it, cuts majority of DHT away but it doesn't touch free T that much from what I know.)

Best way to take D3 + MSM is in my opnion, D3 pills and raw MSM powder as its rather easy to dose and not overly expensive and you're guaranteed to have nothing but the real deal. I mix 2-3 teaspoons of MSM powder to a glass of water before sleep. The stuff tastes very bitter btw. Oh yea and this combo is best taken just before going to sleep. (Most breast growth happens during the night when E is naturally higher.)

I would generally stay away from any pills that are combination of things, a lot of those don't have the doses needed to be effective and my idea is to take as few different things at any one time. Keep it as simple as it gets... But that's just me.

[Siman234]

Afaik, speeding things up and testosterone suppression are the reasons to up the E dose, you're correct, estrogen levels do not have to do with the growth potential, that's about genetics. But the growth happens faster/easier when the levels are higher and T/DHT is suppressed obviously. Specially DHT is important to get out of the equation. (Red reishi works well on it, cuts majority of DHT away but it doesn't touch free T that much from what I know.)

Best way to take D3 + MSM is in my opnion, D3 pills and raw MSM powder as its rather easy to dose and not overly expensive and you're guaranteed to have nothing but the real deal. I mix 2-3 teaspoons of MSM powder to a glass of water before sleep. The stuff tastes very bitter btw. Oh yea and this combo is best taken just before going to sleep. (Most breast growth happens during the night when E is naturally higher.)

I would generally stay away from any pills that are combination of things, a lot of those don't have the doses needed to be effective and my idea is to take as few different things at any one time. Keep it as simple as it gets... But that's just me. " alt="" title="">

I've read some studies that seem to imply that higher estrogen doses can cause core obesity and increase risk of DVT, which is what I'm paranoid about. No reason genetically to fear it in the family,  but nervous nonetheless. I honestly feel like Cyproterone has nuked my testosterone into the floor to the point that I feel way way different on it that I felt on bica. Not too excited to have to go through a bitter powder, so maybe I can mix it into more water and drink it over the day. D3 pills seem easy enough to find, but finding msm might be weird. MSM is the one you need more than D3, right?

The pills I found did 1500mg per 2 pills, which, yea seems to low, when 3 teaspoons ends up being 3500 or so.

Would something like this work for msm intake?

And as one more question, my order kinda is built on taking 6 months to finish all of these, would it hurt me to wait to raise my dosage for 6 months or should I just up my dosage and then rearrange the schedule?

[Heaven's Night]

Yes, high estrogen levels do come with its risks, but then again, look at all cis women who have naturally high E levels, they're doing fine. And the estrogen we take is bio identical, so the risks very likely are close the same... All HRT, herbal or pharma, comes with health risks. Just got to make peace with it and find what works for you the best. Its good idea to be careful. Putting our health on the line for transitioning is quite a big deal.

From whata I know, 2-6 grams of MSM per day is a good dosage. I've done it simple, 2-3 teaspoons per day.

I would guess it might work to make it into a smoothie with something that masks the bitter taste. I've thought of it but just soldiered through it. A lot of the herbal/supplement stuff tastes awful. Don't get me started with maca and fenugreek. Yuck!

Hmmm.... I dunno, that's up to you. I upped my dosage right away when I felt I needed to do so. I always try to stock up enough so that I have time to think what's next. Right now I'm well set, on my current dose the injectable EV will last over year and half and I got enough Androcur/cypro to last me nearly a year on this dosage.(I'm not planning to stay on it that long.)

[Siman234]

Yes, high estrogen levels do come with its risks, but then again, look at all cis women who have naturally high E levels, they're doing fine. And the estrogen we take is bio identical, so the risks very likely are close the same... All HRT, herbal or pharma, comes with health risks. Just got to make peace with it and find what works for you the best. Its good idea to be careful. Putting our health on the line for transitioning is quite a big deal.

From whata I know, 2-6 grams of MSM per day is a good dosage. I've done it simple, 2-3 teaspoons per day.

I would guess it might work to make it into a smoothie with something that masks the bitter taste. I've thought of it but just soldiered through it. A lot of the herbal/supplement stuff tastes awful. Don't get me started with maca and fenugreek. Yuck! " alt="" title="">

Hmmm.... I dunno, that's up to you. I upped my dosage right away when I felt I needed to do so. I always try to stock up enough so that I have time to think what's next. Right now I'm well set, on my current dose the injectable EV will last over year and half and I got enough Androcur/cypro to last me nearly a year on this dosage.(I'm not planning to stay on it that long.)

Yea... I remember the first time I tried PM and didn't realize I could just swallow the pill, so I had the herbs themselves in a bit of water... that was rough. I'll likely push it to 3mg maybe, will wait to go to 4mg until the end of the year.

Would these pills work just fine for MSM? And is D3 and a crucial part of the D3+MSM thing, or would just msm work? Wanna take it slowly with adding new things.

And does Reishi have that big of an effect on top of Crypterone?

Also, one more question, sorry for all of the questions, but in the tincture recipe, it says "a dropperful of each." What exactly does that mean? Is a dropperful meant to be referred to as like, an eye dropper? Or a certain amount of drops out of the tincture bottle? An amount of ml? And on top of that, are there any products or brands of these tinctures you'd recommend? Sorry for being confused on this front. Should also say thanks for all the help so far! Definitely going to be changing some stuff up and looking to order this soon.