[Heaven's Night]

MSM does work on its own, but along with D3 it works way better from what I know. And both have a list of positive health effects, so it will likely do good for your health overall unless you badly overdo it somehow.

Yea, good idea to try 3mg for now. Usually its the best to take the changes in doses slowly enough so your body has time to adjust. This is one of the things on which its better to "do as I say, not as I do." I mean I have upped my doses and made changes very quickly which isn't always the best approach, but I'm some times just not patient enough. Within three months I went from 2mg Estrofem to 0,16ml injections, that's really fast change....

But in general, slow and steady wins the race, specially on breast growth this seems to be the key to success. Not rush, slowly tweak and test things to find the magic that works on you. It seems that none of this is an exact science as there's huge individual differences. Some are fine on low dose of E while others need to really push it to make it work. Same with T, some have it very persistent while others nuke it without any effort.

Oh heck, you had PM on its own? That stuff tastes quite nasty too. I have tried it sublingual and buccal and its disgusting. Way easier to just gulp down the pill.

[Happyme]

Afaik, speeding things up and testosterone suppression are the reasons to up the E dose, you're correct, estrogen levels do not have to do with the growth potential, that's about genetics. But the growth happens faster/easier when the levels are higher and T/DHT is suppressed obviously. Specially DHT is important to get out of the equation. (Red reishi works well on it, cuts majority of DHT away but it doesn't touch free T that much from what I know.)

Best way to take D3 + MSM is in my opnion, D3 pills and raw MSM powder as its rather easy to dose and not overly expensive and you're guaranteed to have nothing but the real deal. I mix 2-3 teaspoons of MSM powder to a glass of water before sleep. The stuff tastes very bitter btw. Oh yea and this combo is best taken just before going to sleep. (Most breast growth happens during the night when E is naturally higher.)

I would generally stay away from any pills that are combination of things, a lot of those don't have the doses needed to be effective and my idea is to take as few different things at any one time. Keep it as simple as it gets... But that's just me.

Glad to see you two are working well.
And YES Didi I have a lot of faith in you!

As for the joint pills you were looking at.
You are much better to take the MSM separately and D seperately
MSM works well or better in quantity, and you wont get that in your combo pill.
I've been on MSM for general ache and pain relief and I recommend it to everyone! And the plus side is that it helps with NBE too.
Happy growing
Bobbi

[Siman234]

MSM does work on its own, but along with D3 it works way better from what I know. And both have a list of positive health effects, so it will likely do good for your health overall unless you badly overdo it somehow.

Yea, good idea to try 3mg for now. Usually its the best to take the changes in doses slowly enough so your body has time to adjust. This is one of the things on which its better to "do as I say, not as I do." I mean I have upped my doses and made changes very quickly which isn't always the best approach, but I'm some times just not patient enough. Within three months I went from 2mg Estrofem to 0,16ml injections, that's really fast change....

But in general, slow and steady wins the race, specially on breast growth this seems to be the key to success. Not rush, slowly tweak and test things to find the magic that works on you. " alt="" title=""> It seems that none of this is an exact science as there's huge individual differences. Some are fine on low dose of E while others need to really push it to make it work. Same with T, some have it very persistent while others nuke it without any effort.

Oh heck, you had PM on its own? That stuff tastes quite nasty too. I have tried it sublingual and buccal and its disgusting. Way easier to just gulp down the pill.

Yeah... it tastes like, plant. Either way I'll probably make the move to 3mg estrogen, seems like it's about time.

Gonna focus on getting the D3 and MSM in because I still don't know enough on the tinctures. If they do burn belly fat and promote breast growth that much then I'd love to try them, still need to figure out measurements and whether to get liquid or solid versions of the cayenne and such. If liquid I'm... still not sure what Lotus meant in the recipe by "a dropperful." Sounds like a very vague measurement and I wouldn't want to over or under measure it if I try it.

Sorry for taking a while to respond, didn't see a second page appear.

Afaik, speeding things up and testosterone suppression are the reasons to up the E dose, you're correct, estrogen levels do not have to do with the growth potential, that's about genetics. But the growth happens faster/easier when the levels are higher and T/DHT is suppressed obviously. Specially DHT is important to get out of the equation. (Red reishi works well on it, cuts majority of DHT away but it doesn't touch free T that much from what I know.) Best way to take D3 + MSM is in my opnion, D3 pills and raw MSM powder as its rather easy to dose and not overly expensive and you're guaranteed to have nothing but the real deal. I mix 2-3 teaspoons of MSM powder to a glass of water before sleep. The stuff tastes very bitter btw. Oh yea and this combo is best taken just before going to sleep. (Most breast growth happens during the night when E is naturally higher.) I would generally stay away from any pills that are combination of things, a lot of those don't have the doses needed to be effective and my idea is to take as few different things at any one time. Keep it as simple as it gets... But that's just me. " alt="" title="" style="max-width: 100%; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;"> 

Glad to see you two are working well. And YES Didi I have a lot of faith in you! As for the joint pills you were looking at. You are much better to take the MSM separately and D seperately MSM works well or better in quantity, and you wont get that in your combo pill. I've been on MSM for general ache and pain relief and I recommend it to everyone! And the plus side is that it helps with NBE too. Happy growing Bobbi

Just had an idea this morning, could I buy the MSM powder in bulk, and then buy the vegan empty pill capsules PM comes in, and kinda make my own pure MSM powder pills that way? So I wouldn't have to deal with the taste?
From what I see, MSM seems to be 750 grams/ml, so for a larger pill one could hold about a gram of msm, so 3-4 of those over the day and you're right in between 2-6 grams?

Didi said they do 2-3 teaspoons, but by my measurements here that's way more than the 2-6 grams they recommended, that ends up coming out to like... 7 to 11 grams. Should I take more or do they take more than 2-6?

Also, another question, the only D3 pills I have right now are these small 50mcg pills, is that all I'd need to supplement the msm?

[Heaven's Night]

Both those extracts have a glass dropper, its quite easy to fill up and pretty consistent... I've been doing half each just to have them last a bit longer. I got only 1 oz bottles so its not that much. I'm not entirely sure if I'm not dosing them high enough, but so far it seems promising. The difficulty here is to tell what changes are brought in by HRT and what is the doing of herbal stuff. But after +1 month of daily measurements, a trend should start to show up which I will of course update on my thread. This stuff is purely an experiment so far, but the theory sure seems sound. Unfortunately I'm not a scientist so I can't say more on this. (Gosh, I wish we had some bio chemist or some professional like that who could help out with all this stuff, or some really good endo.)

Oh wow, it could well be that I'm dosing way higher as teaspoons are quite a bit. I hadn't thought about it. It doesn't appear to be a problem though. Very interesting idea of making your own MSM caps, go for it if you can get the supplies, that would make dosing extremely easy.

[Siman234]

Both those extracts have a glass dropper, its quite easy to fill up and pretty consistent... I've been doing half each just to have them last a bit longer. I got only 1 oz bottles so its not that much. I'm not entirely sure if I'm not dosing them high enough, but so far it seems promising. The difficulty here is to tell what changes are brought in by HRT and what is the doing of herbal stuff. But after +1 month of daily measurements, a trend should start to show up which I will of course update on my thread. This stuff is purely an experiment so far, but the theory sure seems sound. Unfortunately I'm not a scientist so I can't say more on this. (Gosh, I wish we had some bio chemist or some professional like that who could help out with all this stuff, or some really good endo.)

Oh wow, it could well be that I'm dosing way higher as teaspoons are quite a bit. I hadn't thought about it. It doesn't appear to be a problem though. Very interesting idea of making your own MSM caps, go for it if you can get the supplies, that would make dosing extremely easy.

Nice, I may order the tinctures and try them on the side, but focus on the MSM and D3. Those pills are pretty easy to find, 10$ for a pack of 1000.

Would overdosing on your msm contribute to what you've seen so far? Or does it probably have no effect past recommended dose?

Do all tinctures you can find online have the droppers you're talking about? Or is there a certain brand you order that has them?

Either way, thanks again for all the help! I try to reevaluate how my plan is going every few months just to figure out my next goal and direction and this is helping a lot. Hope these tiny D3 pills are enough.

[Heaven's Night]

Nice, I may order the tinctures and try them on the side, but focus on the MSM and D3. Those pills are pretty easy to find, 10$ for a pack of 1000. Would overdosing on your msm contribute to what you've seen so far? Or does it probably have no effect past recommended dose? Do all tinctures you can find online have the droppers you're talking about? Or is there a certain brand you order that has them? Either way, thanks again for all the help! I try to reevaluate how my plan is going every few months just to figure out my next goal and direction and this is helping a lot. Hope these tiny D3 pills are enough.

Keep an eye on my thread on this, I will update any progress there will be.

Honestly I don't know is going on high dose of MSM has any effects one way or another. At least I haven't noted anything negative... I would love to know more about this as if higher dose is just wasted, I'm only blowing my stash too quickly.

They might, at least the ones I bought come with droppers. I would presume they do as that's the most easy way to dose extracts as you can even count the drops if you will. I'm not very knowledgeable of the brands on these things, I've seen many when I was looking for them and just got the first ones with not too high price and ordered them. I can link those to you tomorrow if you want.

Tiny D3 pills, what dosage are they? I've been doing just the recommended daily dose and not more.

[Siman234]

Nice, I may order the tinctures and try them on the side, but focus on the MSM and D3. Those pills are pretty easy to find, 10$ for a pack of 1000. Would overdosing on your msm contribute to what you've seen so far? Or does it probably have no effect past recommended dose? Do all tinctures you can find online have the droppers you're talking about? Or is there a certain brand you order that has them? Either way, thanks again for all the help! I try to reevaluate how my plan is going every few months just to figure out my next goal and direction and this is helping a lot. Hope these tiny D3 pills are enough.

Keep an eye on my thread on this, I will update any progress there will be. " alt="" title="">

Honestly I don't know is going on high dose of MSM has any effects one way or another. At least I haven't noted anything negative... I would love to know more about this as if higher dose is just wasted, I'm only blowing my stash too quickly.

They might, at least the ones I bought come with droppers. I would presume they do as that's the most easy way to dose extracts as you can even count the drops if you will. I'm not very knowledgeable of the brands on these things, I've seen many when I was looking for them and just got the first ones with not too high price and ordered them. I can link those to you tomorrow if you want.

Tiny D3 pills, what dosage are they? I've been doing just the recommended daily dose and not more.

Will definitely pay attention. May try mixing it in my own to get another opinion.

Will let you know any changes to my body by adding the msm and see if I get similar effects on that dose. Will also be adding another mg of estrogen so I may put off doing msm for a while to see if anything changes.

Will also look into adding the tincture maybe a bit further down the line as well, and update later on.

Well, they're these 50mcg Vitamin D3 pills, say it's 250% of daily dose, but the pills are physically tiny, was why I was making sure.

That, should be the most of the questions I have for now, thanks for all the information! Gonna set up a plan to move onto all of this and also add in some more general practices (more massaging, since I've not done much of it) and I'll see how it goes! Will keep up on how things are going for you too.

[Siman234]

Short update, I've moved up to 3mg of estrogen per day, and I guess my chest feels a bit... fuller? I don't feel any more sensitive, it's a bit disappointing since when I moved to cypro I lost a decent bit of sensitivity and arousal potential in my nipples, although it's still there. I know I've seen some people take a break from cypro after a bit, maybe to wane some testosterone back in for a bit or... for other reasons. Is that something I should be doing? Taking a break for a bit? I've been on it for a month. I currently take 12.5mg of cyproterone acetate daily.

Other than that, I feel pretty fine. I felt in an emotional equilibrium at 2mg but the move to 3mg may have thrown me off a bit and I'm still getting used to it.

Will be ordering MSM and the Tinctures soon to try those, and also try making pills with the msm. Will update on how that goes.

[Siman234]

Alright, my tinctures and MSM are on order, should have a 3 month supply of MSM. Decided to not go down the route of homemade msm pills yet and am going with some other pure msm gel pills. Had a bit of trouble finding those plastic pill makers and want to do it right when I do it.

I'll probably move out of this thread into the other subforum, and will give another perspective on how the msm tincture combo goes in tandem with my base-hrt. Excited to see what happens and pass more information onwards.

[Owllee]

HI...I am usually allergic to the internet but I need to find information here....so while here I read your thread.

Here are some random thoughts based on 17 months on 2-8mg Estrofem a day...usually 6mg:

    -this may begin being about breasts and longings and so on...but it will morph into something much more complex and I do not reccomend it...but since you started...your body will change all over and very subtly for 6 months or so but one day you will realize you are on the gender line and every move you make, another chance you take...well...anyway

    -I love the feminizing effects on my body...the mental effects...the weird sexual preference mind co-play...the incredible long story fantasies my brain tells me all the time....how thick my hair is...the added sensitivitiy to touch almost every where...how incredibly happy it makes me to be domestic and look after people and animals...

     -I hate the anxiety...the sleepless nights...the sexual confusion...the lose of energy....the waiting...the fear...the idiots in the media misunderstanding any and everything tg and none binary....the lose of muscle...the rise in my blood pressure despite losing 70lbs in the last couple years...the increased sensitivity to cold...spices....air currents...the toliet paper being hung wrong...being an absolute bitch 99% of the time...and I really hate that word

     Wait... i forgot to mention that cats are very fond of me now.

      So I decided when I started that the few decent studies seem to agree that breast growth is triggered around the 6th month and continues for a couple years with most growth in the first 18 months...and that after 2 years much male muscle is gone for good....so I planned to stop at 18 months and switch back to PM.

 But now I find I like Estrogen a little too much...despite it all...and I dont want to stop...I just dont want to take Estrofem any more....

 For me...unless I was splitting a two mg pill and taking each half well apart...or taking at least 6 mg a day...the estrofem would wear off and I would feel like crap...it does not last long in the body....but once the changes are triggered i think things become very hard to predict

 So...DiDi knows alot...I know her a lttle...she and Lotus have made this so much more than almost any other site..and everyone else who writes in...

 I am trying to work out how to stop for awhile...I know my next phase is very obviously obvious...my face is changing fast now and I have been told a couple of times now that I "Look like a chick" when wearing androgenous clothing which I only ever wear...so...

 Best...and good luck

 Owlie

  

 

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