[Manue]

I'm creating this thread from the top of my mind as a result of having used a natural way toward having my Testosterone and Phytoestrogen within female ranges using information available on this forum and diverse scientific literature. This work is mostly based on Lotus' Project X research in particular, the results of my blood test and the diagnosis of my Doctor.

I do not claim to posess the ultimate truth about this process, so I do invite others to question, challenge and help fine tune this program to create the best synergy to optimize results. Some components might be totally irrelevant or missing. As I'm moving towards a dominant Estradiol instead of Phytoestrogen, I can no longer experiment on this matter with my own body.

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WARNING!

• It is your responsibility to keep your health in check with your General Practitioner and to understand what you are actually putting into your body.
  
• You might grow breasts, sterilize yourself and turn yourself into a plant as a result.
  
• Water your plant.
  

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Those are my "specs" so depending on your own biometrics, you might have to adjust the dosage and this is why going slowly and adding components one at the time is the key to a smoother transition as you are able to isolate issues as they come in. There will be issues!

Sex: AMAB
Age: 34
Height: 173cm
Weight: 145lbs

For the Gender Swap to happen in your Endocrine System, one needs to build enough Phytoestrogen to have them dominating over your Testosterone and outcompete your natural Estradiol. Is it safe to be a Phyto-Woman or a plant in the long run? I do not know and there is probably no records of this at all.

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Natural Feminisation

.Main components

Pumeraria Mirifica: 500mg x 4-5 (Targets E receptors, minor AA, pro-aromatase.) (Core Component)
Peony Root: 600mg (Estrogenic, blocks 5-αr and pro-aromatase)
MSM: 3 000mg (STATs for prolactin pathway)
Reishi Complex (Life Extension): 625mg x 2 (Significantly reduces levels of 5-αr) (Other brands might require different dosage) (Core Component)
Dandelion Root: 525mg (Liver cleanser and up-regulates estrogen receptors) (Milk Thistle should be considered as an option)

.Fatty Acids (Adipose Tissue for Aromatase)

Krill Oil: 1000mg (Omega 3, phospholipids & astaxanthin)
Evening Primrose Oil: 1300mg (Omega 6)
Fish Oil: 1200mg (Omega 3)
MCT Oil (Optional): 1tbs (Saturated fat, doesn't add to adipose tissue but favors weight loss and a healthy liver)

.Vitamins & Proteins

Amino Complete (NOW Sports): 3000mg with juice
CoQ10: 30mg (Cellular Regeneration, Cardiovascular Health and Free Radical Scavenger) (Green Tea Extract should be considered as an option)
Vitamin C: 1000mg
Calcium+Vitamin D3: 600mg 1800UI x 2 (Important)
Multivitamin
Melatonin 3mg: occasionally
Weight gainer powder (Optional): 35-70g (Fats, Whey and Casein proteins) (Good if you don't cook a lot)

.Creams

Progesterone Cream: Every other day following guidance
Estriol Cream: Every other day following guidance
Pumeraria Mirifica Cream/Atomizer (Optional): Everyday following guidance to reduce oral intake of PM.

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Diet and different habits to consider

• Green tea or other herbal teas that inhibit 5-αr
  
• Coconut oil for cooking
  
• Adding a tablespoon per day of Hemp Seed Oil to your tea for more Omega 3 & 6 intake. (Quality of the Omegas to be confirmed)
  
• Spreading Hemp Heart Seeds on your food for more Protein and Omega 3 & 6 intake. (Quality of the Omegas to be confirmed)
  
• Intermitent fasting for body detox.
  
• Sea baths for body detox and transdermal intake of supplements. (Consult your GP 1st if you have high blood pressure or heart related issues)
  
• High Intensity Activity that stimulates growth in the glutes and chest areas.
  
• Breast massaging and suction cups.
  
• 1-2 liters of filtered or distilated water per day. (I think this should be the 1st ingredient)
  
• Moving towards a Non GMO and Organic certified diet.
  
• Finding a way to block negative thoughts in your head.
  

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For reference, I'm listing articles concerning some medical ingredients used in the plan:

1. Pueraria mirifica Exerts Estrogenic Effects in the Mammary Gland and Uterus and Promotes Mammary Carcinogenesis in Donryu Rats
   
2. Role of polysaccharides in food, digestion, and health
   
3. Pentacyclic Triterpene Bioavailability: An Overview of In Vitro and In Vivo Studies
   
4. Calcium and Vitamin D: Important at Every Age
   

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Note: I make use of brands when important components differ reasonably from 1 brand to another and are used as references for what I took personally. I do not claim those brands to be better than another.

[Jamie-May]

Sorry for taking so long to give my input here. I do think this is one of those 'epitome' of herbal hrt threads. You've included basically everything, needed or optional, and though I'm rather uneducated in the interactions of some of these things included taken together, they all seem like things that can combine without issue. The problem is there is just so much here and just so much to remember that it would be an incredibly hard routine to follow without strict memory and scheduling.

If someone could follow this to the letter without messing up often I do think there would be almost 100% certain results. You yourself have shown it with your blood test. I will say though there is likely even more one could add such as green tea extract with high 90+% egcg or additional T reducing supplements that target general T rather than just DHT. Those can be found in the major forum threads on the topic if anyone would care to look.

My major concern is, is all of this overdoing it? For some maybe not. For me I didn't overload myself. I kept it rather simple as a way to minimize purchases and to keep it doable. For those who have the ability or money to keep up with all this stock however I don't see why it couldn't work, I just don't know if it will give a meaningful boost over the most simplistic of plans like PM and RR at certain dosages. Diet for sure plays a major part and exercise seems like it helped me a lot too, so those are important, but with so many things being used or tossed into ones body I'd make sure to watch your health for sure as you've warned. The liver and other things can betray you if you give your body too much.

[Manue]

My major concern is, is all of this overdoing it?

Hi Jamie,

I believe this is a good question. I haven't found anybody else going on record to say they switched their endocrinology even when taking more PM than I did.

What I believe is this; As she wanted to optimize breast growth, Lotus did provide the necessary info about protecting one's health by doing so. There is a chain of reactions when we take PM or Estradiol and this program covers most of it. I recently discovered that MtF have potential Pituitary Gland issues and deficiencies such Vitamin B6 enzyme that can cause anemia among other things. This program might get an update later in the future and include a version for pharma HRT.

As much as many people got liver issues with PM, my blood test showed a healthy one and I cured my allergies while losing weight even though I'm ingesting more than before...

Is it still too much? Maybe, but most of it has definitely been useful to get my results while getting healthier.

[wee2er]

Wow Manue, what a complete program that covers a lot more than just breast growth, if I've understood correctly, it'll help 'switching' endo,  feminising your body, liver cleansing, healthy diet and lifestyle and super soft skin.
Clearly it has worked fantastically for you so well done
Jamie-May has the right concerns about it being a bit full on, but dare say if someone has the means and the right mind set, like you have Manue, it's bound to do you good. If someone has not got the means to do the full program, why not do it in stages, so cycle between breast growth, cleanings, etc and try to eat healthier and change to a healthier lifestyle as and how one can. Maybe that might work for some to.
Good luck with continuing the program and I look forward to your updates

[microngs]

Thanks a lot,   nice work and amazing program/ guide for NBE. I`ll try it. In fact i need take PM because i have half body of man and the other part of body is more feminine.

[Mel87]

Could a smaller version of this work along side HRT? If so what would that entail? I made a reply to Lotus's Project X displaying my own HRT and was curious

[Manue]

Could a smaller version of this work along side HRT? If so what would that entail?
I made a reply to Lotus's Project X displaying my own HRT and was curious

Hello Mel!

I went ahead and had a look at your program. I believe your clinic is handling your development very well with your DD achievement or maybe you have a great diet that allows it? Anyways, congratulations!

If I may ask, I would like to know your age and weight. It would help me expand the scope of my review.

So, I'm going to focus on the obvious for now. Since I consider you to be in puberty 2.0, this is when our body requires the most minerals because of the hormonal change that affects the cellular generation process. I would definitely recommend adding Calcium Citrate among other minerals like Zinc, Magnesium Citrate, copper (for iron synthesis), maganese, etc. I believe there are caps available that provide a good mix of them. A-Zs and Multivits are usually not sufficient.

My second observation is about Omega 3. I would replace or at least add Krill Oil as it provides n-3 Phospholipids and Astaxanthin. I rotate different formulas from California Gold and Sports Research.

Here is the why Krill Oil is important;

In nature, n-3 FAs are mainly esterified either in PLs or TGs or, due to a partial hydrolysis, are present in the free form. Whereas TGs consist of three FAs esterified to a glycerol backbone, PLs have normally two FAs esterified to a glycerol backbone, and a phosphorous group that is further linked to a headgroup (Figure 1). TGs are highly hydrophobic, whereas PLs are hydrophilic due to the polar headgroup. Hence, the physical-chemical properties of these two groups of lipid structures are different and only PLs are able to form micelles and liposomes.

I believe this is it for now. I try to not get too technical and verbalize as much as I can. I hope this provides a small plus in your developement and more importatly, your metabolic health. Breast growth being a side effect of it.

One  question, do you really take a total of 8800mg of MSM per day? Could you double check your dosage for me please because I believe it should be 4 tabs of 1100mg while the recommended dosage is a serving of 2 for a total of 2200mg. If I can increase MSM I would definitely do it ah-ah. I'm at 3000mg per day actually.

[Mel87]

I'm actually currently dieting I'm about 14 pounds above my goal weight so I'm eating a high protein low carb diet not keto with plenty of vegies. I'm 34, 166cm in height and I weigh 153lbs. I've been on active HRT for just over 2 years and was a B cup right up until I added Progesterone and I jumped to DD in the span of 4 months.

Yeah its just a normal multivitamin there are a lot more but the brand is Nu U Nutrition: Multivitamins & Minerals Formula (365 tablets) on Amazon but the ones you mentioned for quick reference are as follows.

• Calcium (just says that) 140mg
• Zinc 5mg
• Magnesium (just says that) 100mg
• copper 0.5,g
• manganese 2mg

That's really interesting about Krill Oil don't worry it isn't too technical I find it very interesting and I got a vested interest " alt="" title="">

Yup it is 8800mg per day I used to only take 4000mg about a year ago and have steadly increased it since then the brand I take is called Nutravita 2200mg MSM with Vitamin C this is also on Amazon. I've never had any weirdness with it.

One thing I'd like is to improve the size of my areolas and nipples they still seem on the masc side somewhat. I do have an opportunity to double my progesterone dosage if I desire and have been thinking about that for sometime.

- Mel

[Manue]

That's really interesting about Krill Oil don't worry it isn't too technical I find it very interesting and I got a vested interest.

Wonderful! I'll develop a bit more on this topic and will come back later to expand on the rest.

So, Omega-3 from Krill Oil has the benefits of being less destroyed during digestion and to be better absorbed. Those n-3 PLs would normally be sourced from fresh fatty fish and are hydrophilic. They may also participate in skin homeostasis when fed Haematococcus pluvialis microalgia. (Astaxanthin)

In nature, n-3 FAs are mainly esterified either in PLs or TGs or, due to a partial hydrolysis, are present in the free form. Whereas TGs consist of three FAs esterified to a glycerol backbone, PLs have normally two FAs esterified to a glycerol backbone, and a phosphorous group that is further linked to a headgroup (Figure 1). TGs are highly hydrophobic, whereas PLs are hydrophilic due to the polar headgroup. Hence, the physical-chemical properties of these two groups of lipid structures are different and only PLs are able to form micelles and liposomes.

I'm going to be pushing the enveloppe here so bear with me.

n-3 TGs from other sources and that includes other Omega-3 blends or vegetable sources are hydrophobic and hard to digest and absorb.

Here are some definitions;

2 : lacking affinity for water

: of, relating to, or having a strong affinity for water

Knowing our body is mostly made from water, it's like day and night. It's also mind boggling because they are everywhere from vegetable oils, to seeds, nuts and more... How about cooking oils in restaurants? Am I really developping a disdain for Polyunsaturated fatty acids now and think the focus should be moved towards phospholipids? 

It's like we ingest so much bad Omega-6 and then try to reduce inflammation using oils that clog everything. We could talk cellulitis and other skin and adipose tissue problems. What else? 

[Mel87]

Awww that's real interesting I've been talking to a friend of mine about weight cycling and why things like omega 6 tend to be bad for weight loss at it creates stubborn fat that is difficult to burn naturally.

Well I'm nearing the end of my Omega-3 so I'll def take a look into getting some Krill Oil instead.

-Mel