[Siman234]

It seems so. My suspicion is that your estrogen levels aren't enough to fully suppress T on their own or otherwise stopping cypro would have had no effect. Cypro indeed has a long half life and the build up and crash both will take time. I think for me it was very apparent around three weeks or so, in line with information I read about it.

I suspect that the progestin like effect it has is very mild on small doses and it doesn't interfere much with bio identical progesterone. Same with how it raises prolactin, its rare to have a problem with that while being on small doses but this seems to be highly individual. 12.5mg and lower should be enough for complete T suppression with tiny chance for any side effects. Of course there are better blockers, but it seems they're all very expensive. I'm on cypro for efficiency and price. I would rather avoid it too if I could but for now its the only viable option.

I used Red Reishi for DHT suppression and it seemed to be very efficient on it. Its also healthy stuff, helps to boost immune system and so on. I have been thinking of taking it on the side just for its health benefits. It curbs DHT but doesn't touch free T.

Glandular therapy really helps with weight gain. Something to keep in mind if planning to try it, just watch you wont over eat, cut down carbs and maybe add some exercise and it should be all fine if you decide to go on with it. From what I've noticed, it seems that pituitary supplement does more about weight gain than bovine ovaries do, but both give a little kick into it. Since spring, I've been able to lose some weight despite being on glandulars which is really nice. Its been slower than I anticipated but it can obviously be done. Weight cycling is something to look into, it seems to be helpful with fat distribution.

I feel even worse today, so it's safe to say estrogen alone isn't enough. Deciding to start Cypro again tonight and use the blood test as a way of seeing how well a small amount of Cypro suppresses. I'll be trying 6.25mg every other day to get that suppression back and figure it out from there. I already have progesterone cream, and I'd prefer that to be my source of progesterone rather than this. I mean a bit of prolactin could help, but, I'd rather find it from a risky source.
There's an interesting table here that states for natal-female like progestenic effects from Cypro, the optimal dose is 3.125mg per day. No source, but interesting nonetheless.
Either way, for the future, I'd like to find a way to maybe work Bica in. I know it's effective since I've used it, and I'm wondering if I could get away with a way lower dose due to most of my testosterone being taken out by estrogen.
Bicamutalide. 25-100mg/day. 10-25mg/day will block female T levels which is achieved via estadiol at a sufficent dose. If not taking estradiol or if you have male levels you will need 50mg/day or more. 100-150mg/day at minimum appears to be need to fully or near-fully block 600ng/dL T.
Bica is expensive, but if we can get away with using way less of it, that might be far more financially viable. By my math, if you find 50 50mg pills of Cypro at 50$ and dose at 6.25mg every other day, it'd be 0.09 cents per dose. Presuming you can find Bica for 50$ for 50 50mg pills and took 12.5mg every day, there are some places out there to find it at that price, that'd be 0.25$ per dose... that's a lot of 50s. Something to look into in the future.

Regarding the weight gain, yeah. I was eating around 3000 calories a day and gaining nothing. The second I started the glandular therapy, I put on 5 pounds in a couple of weeks. Knocked 1000 calories off my diet and balanced out. It's nice to have a sort of toggle for if you're losing or gaining weight. The goal definitely is to weight cycle at some point by stopping the glandular therapy.

Anyways, future plans, suppress T, start increasing progesterone. I'm still stuck in Tanner Phase 3. Maybe getting back on cypro will help a little bit, but mainly gonna try to keep doing the cream daily and see what my blood test reads.

[Siman234]

I was unsure how much testosterone was getting back into me but based on some rough mood swings and tons of other stuff it's safe to say it's back in.
Getting back on 12.5mg Cypro daily for a week and then tapering off to half that just to get my blood levels back up to fully get rid of it.

[Siman234]

Blood test came in, stuff was weird.
I've been on a dose of 7mg, injected in 0.175ml, every ten days, of estrogen for the last month and a half, and it seemed to be working out? I expect my trough to be at 250 pg/ml, but my blood test came back at 480 pg/ml for Total Estrogen.
That feels way too high.
It also seems I have a slightly elevated platelet count, which I think can be caused by higher doses of estrogen. So, I need to figure out why there's so much more estrogen in my body than there should be.

Edit: I realize now that was total estrogens, and so includes estrone, it's probably on level, just, should have measured E2.

[Heaven's Night]

Blood test came in, stuff was weird.
I've been on a dose of 7mg, injected in 0.175ml, every ten days, of estrogen for the last month and a half, and it seemed to be working out? I expect my trough to be at 250 pg/ml, but my blood test came back at 480 pg/ml for Total Estrogen.
That feels way too high.
It also seems I have a slightly elevated platelet count, which I think can be caused by higher doses of estrogen. So, I need to figure out why there's so much more estrogen in my body than there should be.

Edit: I realize now that was total estrogens, and so includes estrone, it's probably on level, just, should have measured E2.

Just to note out something on levels, what we get is not tied to the dose as in some hard coded fact, also recommendations with levels seems to be BS, WPATH in particular is just silly. But 480 pg/ml is high. My E came as 517 pg/ml last time and my doctor (she's trans woman also) didn't say a thing about it, she said its perfectly fine, meaning not too much.

I can't tell what your personal perfect balance is, but my labs have been 345 and then 517 pg/ml and on both, I've felt fine and had nice body changes. Seems that my mental state is the first indicator about if its good or not. Trying higher messed up my emotional state, I was told I behave as if I'm pregnant, going lower than where I'm now (0.08ml/3.2mg of 40mg/ml EV every 3.5 days) causes my dysphoria to flare up. Also body changes totally slow down a to a crawl on higher levels.

You could try to lower your dose so your levels come out around 300-350 pg/ml? That might work for you better? Are you on EEn as you say you're injecting every ten days? Higher than expected levels can be caused by your metabolism and/or E sensitivity, Lotus is more knowledgeable on the exact science on how this works. I say drop your dose a bit a see how you feel and get labs booked after a month or so?

[Siman234]

Just to note out something on levels, what we get is not tied to the dose as in some hard coded fact, also recommendations with levels seems to be BS, WPATH in particular is just silly. But 480 pg/ml is high. My E came as 517 pg/ml last time and my doctor (she's trans woman also) didn't say a thing about it, she said its perfectly fine, meaning not too much.

I can't tell what your personal perfect balance is, but my labs have been 345 and then 517 pg/ml and on both, I've felt fine and had nice body changes. Seems that my mental state is the first indicator about if its good or not. Trying higher messed up my emotional state, I was told I behave as if I'm pregnant, going lower than where I'm now (0.08ml/3.2mg of 40mg/ml EV every 3.5 days) causes my dysphoria to flare up. Also body changes totally slow down a to a crawl on higher levels.

You could try to lower your dose so your levels come out around 300-350 pg/ml? That might work for you better? Are you on EEn as you say you're injecting every ten days? Higher than expected levels can be caused by your metabolism and/or E sensitivity, Lotus is more knowledgeable on the exact science on how this works. I say drop your dose a bit a see how you feel and get labs booked after a month or so?

That... might be a part of it.
Before talking about the dosages, it's the first time checking my measurements in a while... and I haven't made any progress in the last 8 months. No growth at all. The half inch I put on in the last few months was solely from me putting ten pounds on and is entirely evaporated now I've lost a bit of weight. It's incredibly frustrating and this is the first time I've ever truly had a dysphoria induced panic attack. I used to think of myself as not being that dysphoric, but I think this is starting to show I do have strong feelings I haven't come to grips with yet.

The dosages might make a bit of sense for the stalling. I recently changed from 0.175ml/7mg every 10 days, to 0.11ml/4.4mg every 7 days. Both are 40mg/ml EEn. I got my blood test when I was on the 7mg dose, and that had peaks of 350pg/ml of E2, and troughs of 250. Current dose has peaks of 220, and troughs of 150. I haven't tested my blood on this new dose, but, I imagine it'd be overall be lower. I might be in the correct range right now. My mood is a tiny bit off, but my chest feels sore. If I had to guess, I might be a bit low on estrogen? I have felt snippier than usual lately though. It has only been 2 weeks since I feel the DHT left my system, so maybe I need to settle in. I don't know, maybe I'll try 0.01ml more some time. 
It's worth noting I did go testosterone dominant for a month or so, and I've only recently switched back over to estrogen dominant now I'm on Cypro again. 6.25mg a day seems to be enough to keep testosterone and DHT at bay.
I have also had the first real bout of chest soreness I've had since my last growth spurt in the last two weeks as well, but since I've been eating less and losing weight, it doesn't seem to have made a difference. It's situated right up under my nipple, it doesn't extend all the way to the base of the breast though.
I've been slacking on the Noogle and I will try to do more of it, just I'm frustrated there wasn't more progress on all these supplements and time.

I'll keep on these doses for a bit and stick to the supplements for at least a month before I start thinking something is truly off. And I'll try another blood test in the coming weeks.


Full disclaimer, personal dissatisfaction is one of the reasons I'm not at all that active around here, and when I am, I don't really exchange pleasantries. Hearing the stories of others who continue to make loads of progress while I've fought as hard for as I have for five years now to still end up making far less progress is just really demotivating and harmful to my mental state. I feel I need to take several month long breaks to focus on my journey personally to avoid comparing myself to others and beating myself up for not doing better. To be clear I'm not mad at anyone for sharing stories, it's just why I'm a bit... distant.

[Heaven's Night]

That... might be a part of it.
Before talking about the dosages, it's the first time checking my measurements in a while... and I haven't made any progress in the last 8 months. No growth at all. The half inch I put on in the last few months was solely from me putting ten pounds on and is entirely evaporated now I've lost a bit of weight. It's incredibly frustrating and this is the first time I've ever truly had a dysphoria induced panic attack. I used to think of myself as not being that dysphoric, but I think this is starting to show I do have strong feelings I haven't come to grips with yet.

The dosages might make a bit of sense for the stalling. I recently changed from 0.175ml/7mg every 10 days, to 0.11ml/4.4mg every 7 days. Both are 40mg/ml EEn. I got my blood test when I was on the 7mg dose, and that had peaks of 350pg/ml of E2, and troughs of 250. Current dose has peaks of 220, and troughs of 150. I haven't tested my blood on this new dose, but, I imagine it'd be overall be lower. I might be in the correct range right now. My mood is a tiny bit off, but my chest feels sore. If I had to guess, I might be a bit low on estrogen? I have felt snippier than usual lately though. It has only been 2 weeks since I feel the DHT left my system, so maybe I need to settle in. I don't know, maybe I'll try 0.01ml more some time. 
It's worth noting I did go testosterone dominant for a month or so, and I've only recently switched back over to estrogen dominant now I'm on Cypro again. 6.25mg a day seems to be enough to keep testosterone and DHT at bay.
I have also had the first real bout of chest soreness I've had since my last growth spurt in the last two weeks as well, but since I've been eating less and losing weight, it doesn't seem to have made a difference. It's situated right up under my nipple, it doesn't extend all the way to the base of the breast though.
I've been slacking on the Noogle and I will try to do more of it, just I'm frustrated there wasn't more progress on all these supplements and time.

I'll keep on these doses for a bit and stick to the supplements for at least a month before I start thinking something is truly off. And I'll try another blood test in the coming weeks.


Full disclaimer, personal dissatisfaction is one of the reasons I'm not at all that active around here, and when I am, I don't really exchange pleasantries. Hearing the stories of others who continue to make loads of progress while I've fought as hard for as I have for five years now to still end up making far less progress is just really demotivating and harmful to my mental state. I feel I need to take several month long breaks to focus on my journey personally to avoid comparing myself to others and beating myself up for not doing better. To be clear I'm not mad at anyone for sharing stories, it's just why I'm a bit... distant.

You know, this is weird. I have a friend who also has had a massive stall while on moderate dose on EEn and she's been stuck for ages. BUt in her case I presume she has just reached the end of the road for her and haven't tried supplementing with anything decent. And that totally sucks. But it might be your natural way with this too, some people get stuck for a long time only to get growth spurt later. Are you on progesterone? Because you should try, that may get things rolling again. Another is to do the oral E trick to kick the growth back in by supplementing with 1-2mg of oral E daily for several weeks to a month... That might be worth a try.

Yes, definitely keep your T at bay, that's the first thing to fuck it all up if it gets too high, so better staying on cypro.

Awwwh, I can relate so much. I mean my dysphoria is often so extreme that despite my good progress, I just feel too shitty to see how others are doing, its just too triggering. So I avoid a lot and take breaks when needed. Usually few days is enough, some times longer. Its kinda getting easier with time but I somehow feel like my dysphoria is from the extreme end of things. Just that I know how you're feeling. But please don't feel discouraged, we will troubleshoot your stall and make out things to get you started again.

[Siman234]

You know, this is weird. I have a friend who also has had a massive stall while on moderate dose on EEn and she's been stuck for ages. BUt in her case I presume she has just reached the end of the road for her and haven't tried supplementing with anything decent. And that totally sucks. But it might be your natural way with this too, some people get stuck for a long time only to get growth spurt later. Are you on progesterone? Because you should try, that may get things rolling again. Another is to do the oral E trick to kick the growth back in by supplementing with 1-2mg of oral E daily for several weeks to a month... That might be worth a try.

Yes, definitely keep your T at bay, that's the first thing to fuck it all up if it gets too high, so better staying on cypro.

Awwwh, I can relate so much. I mean my dysphoria is often so extreme that despite my good progress, I just feel too shitty to see how others are doing, its just too triggering. So I avoid a lot and take breaks when needed. Usually few days is enough, some times longer. Its kinda getting easier with time but I somehow feel like my dysphoria is from the extreme end of things. Just that I know how you're feeling. But please don't feel discouraged, we will troubleshoot your stall and make out things to get you started again.

Gonna start with responding to the latter part of the message and the stress around others, and say, thanks for getting it. I don't want to come off as implying I'm mad or jealous of others, and that's it more of a personal frustration with myself... and I appreciate the feeling is mutually understood.
I admit I worried a lot after sending that because I felt it came off pretty abrasive and there's always a bit of anxiety worrying you'll have someone tell you "you're just jealous." I find the mutual understanding very refreshing though, and... yeah. It's important to remember that anyone can be and reserves the right to be upset with where they're at, as long as they understand others are too.
I appreciate you sharing as much info and help as you do here, because looking through your thread is a bit much for me.


On a better note, I stepped back to think logically about the state of everything yesterday, and I'm optimistic, all things considered.

The most interesting thing that happened, and the part that may be helping me the most, might have been spurred on by complete accident. I skimmed over it in my last post, but I'll elaborate more.
The fallout from me quitting Cypro, T getting back into my system, and DHT messing everything up for a while... might have actually helped?
As soon as I felt my body switch back over to mainly estrogen, as my new Cypro dose ramped up, I felt that strong, almost painful chest soreness I had only felt during my last growth spurt come back. Now it's too early to say if this is the start of another one, but it feels just like it. I hadn't felt this soreness since my last bout of growth.
This is something that's talked about on the /HRTGen/ guide that I can't find the link for any more, hrt.cafe is down at the moment.
It mentions if breast growth does stall, to cycle your estrogen down, or even out entirely. Mentioning receptor desensitization and downregulation. Now the side effects this does instill on someone are... rough, to say the least. The dysphoria from my body starting male body tendencies again was rough, and I also suddenly got ingrown hairs and skin issues from my body being confused what to do. It's probably better to leave an AA on while just reducing estrogen for a bit, but I think in a nice accidental series of events, this may have coaxed my chest out of a stall.

Again, far too early to say since I now measure smaller now due to weight loss, but that feeling is special and has only accompanied growing periods for me. It's very possible taking a break from estrogen, either using a bit less, or taking a break completely, can break breast growth stalls. I only went T-dominant in my system for about 3 weeks. Shows how fast you could reset receptors. Hope your friend can figure something out though. Maybe this might be an avenue worth looking into, if the side effects aren't too terribly bad.

It's worth noting while I was going through the messy AA period, I did take a break from all supplements, so piling them back on now may also be increasing their efficacy. I've only been on one of the glandular pills each day due to concerns about bloating, but may get back on two a day as I speak.

On the topics of the glandulars, while I did see significantly faster weight gain when on them, I was eating a lot at the time. And now, I've been able to drop ten pounds while still on them, meaning while it is a modifier, it definitely doesn't seem like it controls your weight in a way you can't compensate for. Only seeming to put more on when you're eating in excess. I do need to start eating more again though, now that my chest seems to be needing it. I'm also in a spot to gain back ten pounds to cycle once more, for fat redistribution. (hips are still frustratingly small)

I did also switch from Raw Female to Swanson Ovarian Glandular for Bovine Ovary, since Raw Female is out over here.

I also am starting to use a daily progesterone cream with 20mg of micronized progesterone per pump from wild yams. So it may not be truly bioidentical, but I'm experimenting with this and possibly moving up to two pumps a day if I notice good trends. To be honest, with everything else going on, it's not possible for me to tell if the progesterone is helping yet. I also haven't put it on my upper breasts yet easier. Worried to put it there and was using it for a while elsewhere on my body to see if there were any adverse effects, but will try it very slowly. Maybe once a week on the chest. No clue what schedule to go by there. I just know not to do it too often. Would appreciate feedback there.
 
Started doing Noogle again, and frustratingly, the same skin conditions I noticed developing last time before I took that break instantly popped up again. In the exact same spots too, and I'm far from getting to -0.2 bar still. So for now, I'm going to be trying to do two 15 minute sessions at a lower pressure per day, to try to strengthen the skin up and not put too much pressure on them all at once. Slowly get back into it. I've been sparse with Noogling and the longest I was able to keep it up daily was for about 3 weeks or so. Hoping I can build into longer and more consistent sessions.

Regarding dosages, I have felt slightly more snippy and slightly more emotional in the last 2 weeks since the cypro kicked back in. Whether that's down to the body switching hormones over, whether it's down to my estrogen dosage, or whether it's down to the progesterone I've been adding, I have no clue. I'm considering adding 0.01ml more to my next injection, but that'd be such a small dose to notice any changes. Will likely try riding this dose out for now and get blood tested later. Then adjust from there.

Regarding exercise, since I noticed growth spurts around exercise last time, I have been doing HIIT and Cardio every 3 days. Not as much as I could be doing, but a solid amount that should help. Helps with moving weight around too.

My diet has improved dramatically, and it might be why I'm eating less in general. Much more eggs, more protein, less carbs, more fruits and vegetables, but the fat feels a bit low right now. Will add that back in for breast growth.

I think... that's all I have to go over though? It's about everything I can think of that will potentially effect stuff. All that's left now is to focus back in, go back to the plan again, and hope I can make this cycle go somewhere.
I appreciate the support and help. I'm fairly stubborn and will work as hard as I can to make stuff work if I really want it to.



A couple more things. I measured my last smaller measurement after a pretty long Noogling hiatus. And it's a fairly solid guess that when my last pictures were taken when I weighed ten pounds more, I was Noogling at the time. So the deflated look now might be a symptom of that.

Another note, the bowl water displacement measurements I did last time seem highly inaccurate. I measured my left breast again 3 times, and got a range from 500g to 800g. I think the most accurate way to measure them is to fill the Noogle cups up with water and put them on, then measure the displaced water. Since would only measure the breast, and not my upper chest or ribcage.

[Heaven's Night]

Gonna start with responding to the latter part of the message and the stress around others, and say, thanks for getting it. I don't want to come off as implying I'm mad or jealous of others, and that's it more of a personal frustration with myself... and I appreciate the feeling is mutually understood.
I admit I worried a lot after sending that because I felt it came off pretty abrasive and there's always a bit of anxiety worrying you'll have someone tell you "you're just jealous." I find the mutual understanding very refreshing though, and... yeah. It's important to remember that anyone can be and reserves the right to be upset with where they're at, as long as they understand others are too.
I appreciate you sharing as much info and help as you do here, because looking through your thread is a bit much for me.

Oh such a long post. It will take a while to reply all this.... And I hear you, people who speak about jealousy and such or preach self acceptance typically do not understand a first thing about how dysphoria works. There is no logic and it has nothing to do with being jealous, I know this so well, some people and things just are triggering and its horrible as there is no off switch to it. For myself, the only thing that is helping is fixing my body. And then some internal work on top of it as I lack confidence and sense of self worth.

Awwh if it hurts, just skip it. I don't ever want to upset people or trigger their dysphoria, that's the worst that can happen. I rather want to inspire and help if I can.

The most interesting thing that happened, and the part that may be helping me the most, might have been spurred on by complete accident. I skimmed over it in my last post, but I'll elaborate more.
The fallout from me quitting Cypro, T getting back into my system, and DHT messing everything up for a while... might have actually helped?
As soon as I felt my body switch back over to mainly estrogen, as my new Cypro dose ramped up, I felt that strong, almost painful chest soreness I had only felt during my last growth spurt come back. Now it's too early to say if this is the start of another one, but it feels just like it. I hadn't felt this soreness since my last bout of growth.
This is something that's talked about on the /HRTGen/ guide that I can't find the link for any more, hrt.cafe is down at the moment.
It mentions if breast growth does stall, to cycle your estrogen down, or even out entirely. Mentioning receptor desensitization and downregulation. Now the side effects this does instill on someone are... rough, to say the least. The dysphoria from my body starting male body tendencies again was rough, and I also suddenly got ingrown hairs and skin issues from my body being confused what to do. It's probably better to leave an AA on while just reducing estrogen for a bit, but I think in a nice accidental series of events, this may have coaxed my chest out of a stall.

Again, far too early to say since I now measure smaller now due to weight loss, but that feeling is special and has only accompanied growing periods for me. It's very possible taking a break from estrogen, either using a bit less, or taking a break completely, can break breast growth stalls. I only went T-dominant in my system for about 3 weeks. Shows how fast you could reset receptors. Hope your friend can figure something out though. Maybe this might be an avenue worth looking into, if the side effects aren't too terribly bad.

Yes, receptor reset is a really a thing and I think there are several ways to do it! Even stopping NBE/supplements can help or a complete stop with everything if nothing else works. Its not guaranteed, but very often what makes boobs grow and all other body changes kick in is to "shock" our bodies in some way which could mean a minor change to your program. I have noticed that almost every time I change something, I get a growth spurt or at least notice itch/ache/sensitivity go up, or just a difference in pictures or who my bras fit. So this is something to keep in mind in case you get stuck, even minor change might do a difference.

It's worth noting while I was going through the messy AA period, I did take a break from all supplements, so piling them back on now may also be increasing their efficacy. I've only been on one of the glandular pills each day due to concerns about bloating, but may get back on two a day as I speak.

On the topics of the glandulars, while I did see significantly faster weight gain when on them, I was eating a lot at the time. And now, I've been able to drop ten pounds while still on them, meaning while it is a modifier, it definitely doesn't seem like it controls your weight in a way you can't compensate for. Only seeming to put more on when you're eating in excess. I do need to start eating more again though, now that my chest seems to be needing it. I'm also in a spot to gain back ten pounds to cycle once more, for fat redistribution. (hips are still frustratingly small)

I did also switch from Raw Female to Swanson Ovarian Glandular for Bovine Ovary, since Raw Female is out over here.

Yes, I will also switch entirely on Swanson for BO once my stock of Raw Fem runs out. It appears that Natural Sources company has gone out of business. And about weight gain and loss, I have had both during being on glandular therapy. I think it has made weight gain much easier than before, but I have been able to slim down some too without changing my program, just with eating less carbs and exercising more than before. Its good to know when weight cycling. This stuff helps with gaining.

Started doing Noogle again, and frustratingly, the same skin conditions I noticed developing last time before I took that break instantly popped up again. In the exact same spots too, and I'm far from getting to -0.2 bar still. So for now, I'm going to be trying to do two 15 minute sessions at a lower pressure per day, to try to strengthen the skin up and not put too much pressure on them all at once. Slowly get back into it. I've been sparse with Noogling and the longest I was able to keep it up daily was for about 3 weeks or so. Hoping I can build into longer and more consistent sessions.

The optimal pressure is just slightly below -0,2 bar, its right at -5 inHg. I started to never exceed this pressure and go most of the time slightly below. There's a difference on how the pressure behaves depending on how much of the domes you fill, usually more there is air, more harsh it is so the trick is to use less pressure. The optimal is said to be the best, but less also works so do it the way you wont hurt yourself. Melissa for example did lower pressure for a very long time until recently and she has had massive growth spurt going on, with pump obviously doing its part so the pressure isn't written in stone.

I hope the progesterone helps you, for me its been a big game changer. Lately trying out the cream has been very interesting and I think its doing its job.

About measuring volume, you should just measure horizontal and vertical from the edge of the breast root to the other and then multiply the numbers together to get approx ccs, that's the easiest way to it. The hard part is to have it accurate because telling where exactly the breast root ends might be a bit difficult. I've noted this is becoming easier with time, more projected and big your boobs get, more accurate the volume reading will be. When you know which cup size you fill up nicely and its a good fit, then using a size chart which shows volumes can give you an idea where your measuring is correct. Just remember how bra manufacturers have their own standards, but when you compare back and forth enough, you will get it quite close to what you have.

I will attach a sister size chart here, it uses UK cup sizes, but for that I'll add another chart on how to accurately convert sizes, both band lengths and cups.

[Siman234]

I appreciate you uh... looking through all that. A lot of that was me writing for myself to check every possible avenue of things I could do or change to help growth... more of a status check.

I just noticed another thread come up on fish oil, it seems like such a small thing, but having been on a lot of fish oil for a while, I may try getting off of it.

Tried noogle the last two days, I think I'm finding a starting point. There's 5 notches going up to -5 inHg, including the one at -5, and I get skin issues if I hold at the third notch for half an hour. To be clear, I'm not going up for a few minutes, and then releasing it, but just holding it there for that whole time. So for now, I've been trying to just do 20-30 minute pumps at the second notch. I used to be okay with it, but after putting down the noogle for a while, my skin is acting up again. Hopefully if I do this pressure for a couple weeks, then go up slowly, it might work out.

Do you apply the progesterone on the top of your breasts? Is that something you're supposed to do? I may be worried too much of doing it after learning too much progesterone in fat soluble places is bad, so I'm curious what schedule I should be following there. I feel a bit fuller and perkier when I did put cream on them, so I'm wondering how often I should put it on my chest. Right now though, I'm just doing one 20mg pump a day rotating between my wrists and under-knees. You are also on progesterone pills at the moment though, right? I'm just trying the cream to see how progesterone interacts with my system before getting on pills next year.

I'd like to ask for more clarification on the measurement method if that's ok, I have a bit of trouble following your instructions and I can find nothing on this method online. Is the breast root the part of your chest where the breast tissue starts, on the underside and the sides? And then are you measuring horizontally up and over your nipple to the other side of your breast, and finally from the underside breast root to your nipple? And then how are you multiplying those together to get volume?

The charts are helpful, and honestly, it doesn't matter if I use UK bra sizing, because US bra sizing is miserable enough to not to use anyways.

[Siman234]

Now I've poked through Melissa's plan, I think I wanna ask more about progesterone cream, specifically how I should be applying it?
I've heard so much all over, don't apply to nipples, it's ok to apply to nipples sometimes, apply to breasts once a week, not at all, all the time... There's so many plans thrown around... What plan should I be following with that?
Should I put PG cream all over my breasts including the nipples, spread evenly all over? Or just the upper chest? Does it matter how often I apply it? Does the dose I'm using matter if I should apply it there or not? I did feel my nipples swell a tiny bit when I applied cream to my chest for the first time, so, feel I should be doing it...