[ZoneWolf]

I only recently started with HBE and was reading up on different sources and effects

My goal is a generally more femme figure, so would it be more beneficial to decrease my androgens with things like Saw Palmetto and Licorice 
or would it be better to increase my Estrogens with PM, etc

Or is it important to do both at once for them to take effect?

I am able to get a few AAs pretty easily, but effective estrogens other than PM are a bit harder to get without prescriptions or from questionable sources.

[Stevenator_]

Re: reading up on different sources

The only source you need is the Breast Growing Notes, Anti-Androgens & Project-X Threads.

Sorry, but it’s true.

Everything Else is Picrel.

[Teddy]

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Hi Stevenator, technically you are absolutely right. However reading hundreds or maybe thousands of posts and extracting the essential information and advise is a quite tall order for a newbie. Maybe ZoneWolf could have a fling start by having a bit shorter story?

Therefore I want to present my quite simplified summary of what information I have managed to grab and extract here and other places. I am myself basing my own program on this framework:

- Estrogenic stuff such as Pueraria Mirifica, for short PM, is the corner stone of NBA. It seems that a good practice is to start maybe 500mg/day and increase to 1000mg when getting used to it. Some people use more, but it is difficult to say what is too much. I wouldn't go too high.
- One good and reliable PM supplier is Ainterol, but there are others, too.
- Suppressing androgens should be also done. My opinion is that Red Reishi ("RR") is a good support for that. Likely better than Saw palmetto.
- Green Tea / Green Tea Extract ("GTE") may be useful, too. But don't over-do it. Too much isn't good thing. (EU has established 800 mg of EGCG as the maximum daily intake, so read the label how much EGCG the supplement has). There are claims that vitamin C helps in utilizing GTE.
- Taking some vitamins and minerals in general, such as vitamin C, Calcium and Omega 3 is also recommendable. Also MSM may be a good addition.

And then, reading more information on this forum is for sure useful. The problem being only that there is too much to go through for staters.
-Teddy

[ZoneWolf]

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Thanks Teddy! 

I was indeed asking because there is an excess of documentation with very little useful data in many of the forums, 
and most of the data that is useful is very old and questionably reliable.

So I need to take both +E and AAs? I have found a few places I can get some herbal supplements from brands I recognise. 
I have also found some "Menopause Blends" That contain a bunch of the herbs recommended here, like Dong Quai, Red Clover, Wild Yam, etc. Would those be safe?

So far, I recently started drinking tea, which I never used to enjoy, with some Vit-C tabs, and exercises. Mostly been researching herbs and effects.

[EverJosie]

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The claims posted alot on this site is indeed questionable, so you need to do alot of your own research when it comes to people claiming stuff on here. Icluding people raiving about PM, as there is no actual research paper to claim PM does anything for feminization of any kind, besides helping menopausal women. So please do your own research when reading stuff on here. 

When it comes to Vit-C tabs, they are most of the time useless for multiple reasons. Vit-C is water soluble and you pee out a good quantity that you arent using, and most people have sufficient Vit-C, so if you take one, take it every few days or so. Or even better, get it from a diet eat an orange, squeeze a lime in your water. Its much better to get vitamins/minerals/nutrients from a whole source food rather than relying on supplements. 

The only supplement(s) i would recommend everyone take is Fish Oil, Cod Liver Oil, Vitamin K Complex and occasionally a High bioavailable Magnesium and Zinc. Other than that, let food be thy medicine.

I persoanlly take Hops with Naringenin(long story short, naringenin is used in the creation of 8pn which one of the highly estrognic compounds in hops) as my main Estrogen and Anti-Androgen with high concentration Soy Isoflaven and Stinging Nettle as an extra DHT blocking effect. I have been looking at a high polyphenol content Saw Palmetto to replace my Stinging Nettle(yet research still hasnt determined whether Saw Palmetto itself blocks DHT or if Polyphenols in general affect DHT)

[Teddy]

...........

So I need to take both +E and AAs? I have found a few places I can get some herbal supplements from brands I recognise. 
I have also found some "Menopause Blends" That contain a bunch of the herbs recommended here, like Dong Quai, Red Clover, Wild Yam, etc. Would those be safe?

So far, I recently started drinking tea, which I never used to enjoy, with some Vit-C tabs, and exercises. Mostly been researching herbs and effects.

Yes, and I'm taking an estrogenic herb (I have taken PM, but there are other alternatives, too. However, I have no strong opinion about those). Based on available data and published info, some strong E+ is the most important supplement.

Also T-blockers are likely quite useful, and likely even necessary because androgens counter-act E. GTE is bit similar in action,  but has different mechanism of action, and supports conversion of your natural T to E.

Vitamins and minerals in general either support the above, and/or protect the body and generally are good for well-being. There seems to be some support in research for usefulness of at least of C, D3, Calcium, Omega3 and MSM, and all of those are good for general health anyway.

I am skeptical abut all kinds of lends containing "zillion" ingredients. The amounts per capsule are very small, and some may even counter-act each others. If you want to track what you really are taking and what actually works it is better to keep away from those "pink pills" having everything but a kitchen sink.

Once again, I would keep it quite simple and step up gradually, listening your body's reactions. It is also possible to experiment with other supplements as well, such as Dong Quai, Red Clover, Wild Yam, Fenugreek etc. Especially it seems plausible that a "cycling pattern" with shorter periods of progesterone-type stuff may be very beneficial for breast growth. However, in some cases their effect may clash if taken simultaneously. That is one reason why "cycling" may be the right way (one example 5 days-4 weeks on PM, 2 days-1 week on FG or similar. What is an optimum tempo and perfect combination isn't well understood. Among others, Lotus and a couple of others here have collected bewildering amount of information regarding synergistic actions and conflicting combinations.)

Making your plan too complicated would be easily leading to a quite unknown terrain because the possible combinations of herbs and supplements are countless and combined actions most often not well known.

-Teddy

[IanW55]

Wow what a thread, must admit some of the comments are quite sensible and for a newbie the forum can be a very frightening confusing place, members all with their own idea's and methods, nothing wrong with that as long as its safe and works for you.

There are several members on here who have walked the walk, in my opinion the go to people for their knowledge, for example the head Guru in my humble opinion is LOTUS what she does not know about the NBE is not worth knowing.

If you are uncertain just ask, there are also other members out there who have listenend and followed her guidance and I now even ask them guidance, for example Jenniefer, Stevenator and Manue & DD's, sorry to the other members but just ask one of them.

This is one of the friendliest forums on the internet, dont be shy ask.

Liz
xx