[Moose]

I probably should have made this post years ago, but better late than never I suppose. I made a half-assed introduction post on someone elses thread a couple of years ago, but now I am making it official.

I have lurked here for for about 6 years, reading of others success stories and absorbing as much knowledge as possible from Lotus, TanySquirrel, DiDi and many others. I have lived somewhat vicariously through those success stories and dreamed of utilizing the knowledge I have gained

I am currently 40 yrs old and I have dreamed of having breasts of my own for as long as I have been aware of the difference between males and females.  

I have spent a lot of time chewing on my desire to have breasts, the options to attain them and the ensuing implications they would represent. Do I just want breasts of my own, or do I need them because that is part of who I am? Is this important enough to me to risk having to give up the job I have invested over 20 years into (I am a heavy equipment field technician for a Caterpillar dealer). Will breasts alone be enough (implants with some light herbal/soft hormones for shape), or will I be ok with the feminization that comes with consistant long term use of herbs like PM and those associated with supporting its potential, or do I go all in and pursue HRT (DIY/Full clinical)?

What exactly is it that I want/need and how important is it to me?

The answer to those questions seems to change frequently for me as things like my job, my wife, etc carry different amounts of weight in my decision, and that weight fluctuates in my mind day to day, making comming to any kind of a consensus very difficult.  

I still struggle with the answers to those questions and the weights associated with the primary pillars in my life , but I have finally decided to shit or get off the pot.

I have tried light herbal many many times over the years and have seen some slight progress, but I have never been consistant enough with it to amount to much. I tried Nature Day a bit 15-20 years ago before I realized it was a waste of money. I have been though at least 6 bottles of Ainterol PM over the years, but always on again/off again without the supporting herbs and never consistantly. I even dabbled in BO for a bit at one point before I understood Lotus's advice to avoid it and its dangers.

Recently, I have been pouring over some of the notable success threads on here, collecting the specifics of which herbs to use, how much to take and the best time of day to take them. I have been slowly collecting those herbs over the past couple of months and doing test doses to make sure I dont have a bad reaction to them when I start taking full doses.  

Maintaining my male function was very important to me, mainly for my wife's sake, but a bit for myself as well, but that hang up has become much more fluid and less critical in the last year for reasons I will not get into. Retaining my ability to tolerate the physical demands of my job and remain productive was very important to me as well, but that has tempered a bit over the last year as well.  

Chalk it up to having a mid life crisis if you want, but this is something I need to do for myself, above everything and everyone else.

I have been on testerone injections through my doctor for several years, so I know what my T levels are at right now. I need to get my E, Prolactin, Progesterone, etc levels checked so I have a base number for them and can adjust accordingly as things progress.

I have about 6 months of Ainterol PM to use as base for my dedicated attempt. After 6 months are up, I will evaluate where I am at and proceed accordingly. If I am happy with the growth/progress I have made with herbs, then I will likely continue down that path. If not, then I will seriously move towards HRT, clinical prefferably, but DIY if necessary.

My plan includes the following:

PM
RR
WP
MSM
Vit D3
GABA
Calcium
Green Tea Extract
L-Tyrosine
PC

I plan to start at 500mg of PM and work my way up over the first month or so with the D3 and Calcium, adding the others incrementally as my body get accustomed to them. Slow, steady and safe is my goal, I'm not trying to set any records by pushing too hard.  

For me personally, areola and nipple development is very important to my brain and I can not convince it otherwise. My brain demands actual, genuine mammary glands on my body to be satisified, not just breasts in apperance only.  

Noogling never really appealed to me, but I do have a Spectra Synergy Gold pump with several sized flanges that I have started, and will continue to use to help my development. 

I do not have an exact date in mind for starting this, but I wanted to get this said and out there as a decleration of intent as much as anything.

[Kay Lady]

Hi Moose,

Thank you for sharing your story. Yes, there are many things to consider in a gender journey. Wife, family work all complicate the decision. Wish you the best!

Kay

[flamesabers]

Hello Moose,

Glad you made an official introductory post!

In regards to your self-questioning, have you ever considered addressing your concerns with a gender therapist?

Something to consider is PM and the other NBE herbs might not show up on your E/Prolactin/Progesterone bloodwork.


-Alice

[Heaven's Night]

Hello.  

You seem like this might be something to really think out well and consider with some seriousness. Of course I advocate for careful consideration and then if its the right decision, go full on in with everything and have no second thoughts. But only once you know it to be the right decision of course.  

The scary stuff about BO, I think that's one more of proceed with caution type of things which everything about NBE is. And some times even with conventional HRT, these things can also harm if you overdo something or if you're juts unlucky as that can happen too. BO is one of the grey are stuffs that works for some and others just don't get anything but its not more dangerous than messing up with hormone balance in general. Obviously I'm basing my thinking on my own experience, right now more than a year on it and I'm in good health, no problems from it except for weight gain which I'm dealing with right now.

Your plan seems to be quite good one, with PC you mean progesterone cream? That one is another of might work or might not things, for me it wasn't really beneficial and it felt even like it stalled me a bit for some reason. Otherwise I respond well to progesterone. So that one might be something you want to experiment after you're been on your program for a while maybe? Like go on for a month and then try it out for few weeks and see what it does.

I recommend going on adding things one or two at a time and slowly working up with dosages to figure out your sweet spots and also the ease of troubleshooting if something doesn't work or you get side effects. If you start everything at once and a problem arises, you might not know right away what did it.

[Moose]

This is a long term, self care/improvement process for me. It is my intention to take it slowly, step by step, to obtain what I need from myself. I am not after instant gratification from cramming a bunch of stuff into my body, trying for faster development.



Flamesabers:

I have thought about it over the years.  I have been to several therapists for various issues at one time or another, and honestly, I just have never seen eye to eye with another of them and I dont ever feel as though any actual progress has been made or anything has been resolved.  

I am extreamly introspective and often times agonize at length over something as simple as what to eat or what color to paint something.  I have pondered and soul searched on this for decades and and determined that this is something I absoultly need to do for myself.  

Determining how far is far enough is not something I can know until I am there.  I cant know if this is something I am willing to give up my career or marriage for until I am at the point where the changes to my body and brain are are enough to force me out even though my psyche is still not satisfied.   

If I arrive at the point where I have to go clinical HRT, then I will obviously have to see a therapist to proceed, but until then, I generally see therapists as a waste of a copay.

DiDi:

Through trial and error, I have found that BO and I do not get along.  It works for some, has no effect for others, and ends up hurting those who are not compatible with it.  My brief experience with it leads me to believe that I am in the third group.

I have the benefit of bring extreamly in-tune with my body.  I have been systematically testing individual NBE elements, seeing what works for me and what doesnt.  I am slowly adding them together to develop a complementary regime for myself that is hopefully targeted for what I need/want.  

Yes, PC is for progesterone cream.  Most of the information I have gathered from Lotus and many others boils down to PC not really being beneficial until there is sufficient tissue/gland development for it to act upon.  I may be incorrect in this, but I am going to hold off on using it until I have some genuine growth.

[Heaven's Night]

Yes, BO is very weird on how it works and to whom it doesn't. It seems like no one has any definitive answer to why exactly, other than speculation that its a hormonal and or genetic trait that makes or breaks it. Its very weird and I would love to learn the specifics of this but I doubt there will ever be good answers. All I know is that for me, Melissa and one other lady I've talked with it has worked wonderfully and then there are whole bunch who either get not much or get health issues. Its really strange.

Progesterone cream is another odd one, for me it obviously does not work on aiding breast growth, but it did nuke ton of body hair early on and helped with it later on. HRT has done such crazy work on my bodyhair, I never expected it and PC happens to be a fantastic local DHT killer.

[Moose]

DiDi:

My experience with BO is very similar to what Karen Hart posted.  At 2 days in, I had tingling and a very dull prickling sensation down stairs and my areolas were already puffing up.  At 4 days, downstairs felt smaller and I could tell that getting an erection would be difficult.  Areolas had puffed up enough that there was barely a distinction between them and the nipple.  At 6 days it was more of the same with a dull ache in my testicles and deep in my groin.  I stopped BO at that point and it took about 2 weeks for these effects to start reversing and over 2 months to get back to 80%.

I am not sure how I will respond to PC as I have never tried it.

I nuked my body hair myself over the last 4 days with shave gel and a razor.  My legs feel amazing and I cant believe I have never done this before.  I did learn that post shave moisturizing is absolutely critical for my skin.  Currently on the hunt for more comfortable undergarments as I have learned that mens articles have very pronounced seams that are rough and uncomfortable.

[Karen Hart]

Hi Moose,

I remember the first time that I shaved my legs... I got an erection! That was the only time that happened though.
After that, it became a chore. I searched for a permanent solution. There were two: home laser and epilation.
I tried the laser first but that was a real chore... took a long time to cover such a large area because it only does like 1/3" square at a time (maybe less).

I got a Braun Silk Epil. OMG it hurt but it was much faster. It's hard to explain but you have to use it regularly and over time, less and less frequently.
It was probably a year between uses the last time. I have virtually no hair on my legs, face, chest and arms. Some areas are more resistant to treatment.
I'm lucky that I am not a hairy person to begin with. If you have dark, thick hair, it would probably be absolute torture... laser would be better. 
I cannot stand to use it on my underarms or groin due to the level of pain. The beard is tough, especially the moustache area.

Did I understand correctly that you are getting T shots from your Doc? Then, you are using AA's to lower T? Isn't this counter-productive? IDK...

[Moose]

Karen:

I shaved because it was the easiest for my first time and I wanted to see what all was involved.  I already have a Braun epilator and when the hair starts to grow back in I will give it a try.  Fortunantly, my hair is relativly thin and blonde so I am hoping it dont have too much of an issue.  

Laser and electrolysis is too rich for my blood.  I dont have the time or money to go through all that.

My T was prescribed by my doctor, but I do the injections myself.  I stopped doing my injections about 2 months ago when I started doing product testing.  I am not sure if I will ever do them again honeatly as they are counterproductive to my goal.  I included it in my first post as it is important for those giving advise to have all the information, past and present.