[Cagedmuscle213]

So just for discussion shake I thought I propose this approach. Unfortunately I am a usually all in or nothing kind of person and when I go all in I go from 0-100 in a blink of an eye, no after thought once I've started. 

Anyways... My current t thoughts are what if hypothetically speaking I come off my cycle of testosterone, not use any post cycle therapies to return my body back to close to normal as it can get hormone level wise, but instead jump on using pm and other herbs to increase and promote estrogen. Obviously a bad idea from going from one extreme to the other. Part of me thinks that of one were to do this it would so to act as like a jump start since all that test will make the body have to balance itself by producing estrogen, but with no post cycle like hcg or clomid etc the testies won't restart themselves or not as quickly as they would with a post cycle to help, and so naturally coming off test the body will increase estrogen, and then adding pn and sp, and maybe other herbs will act as a jump start.  

Again obviously a bad idea, and it would be hell on anyone's body who ever did try anything like this. 

But for discussion and argument sake what do you all think would happen.

[p_r_1974]

I too tend to be all in or all out when I choose to do things. I haven't chosen to accelerate what nature and the doc med  side effects have provided from other needs. While my situation is different from your, I agree that going from full throttle testosterone to full throttle phytoestrogens or estrogen may cause the body to react.

 I would advise using the search function and move through Lotus's Project x thread. And be sure you want what may come with all of the physical, social, and possible work adjustments this path may lead to. Live your truth where that takes you.

[ChuckM]

So just for discussion shake I thought I propose this approach. Unfortunately I am a usually all in or nothing kind of person and when I go all in I go from 0-100 in a blink of an eye, no after thought once I've started. 

Anyways... My current t thoughts are what if hypothetically speaking I come off my cycle of testosterone, not use any post cycle therapies to return my body back to close to normal as it can get hormone level wise, but instead jump on using pm and other herbs to increase and promote estrogen. Obviously a bad idea from going from one extreme to the other. Part of me thinks that of one were to do this it would so to act as like a jump start since all that test will make the body have to balance itself by producing estrogen, but with no post cycle like hcg or clomid etc the testies won't restart themselves or not as quickly as they would with a post cycle to help, and so naturally coming off test the body will increase estrogen, and then adding pn and sp, and maybe other herbs will act as a jump start.  

Again obviously a bad idea, and it would be hell on anyone's body who ever did try anything like this. 

But for discussion and argument sake what do you all think would happen.

First question I'd have is why you're taking testosterone.  Is it a replacement or additional?  I'm on T replacement because a pituitary tumor knocked out my natural T production.  Replacement T therapy can occasionally cause gynecomastia (male breast growth) which is what happened in my case, which I've augmented to good effect with supplements and pumping while continuing my T replacement.  I started with PM and was having good results unlit I developed a DVT in my leg (NO FUN!).  I've since replaced the PM with other supplements that don't have potential blood clotting side effects.  

My initial thought would be instead of stopping the Testosterone, just add an anti androgen like Red Reshi, to the PM, and see what happens.  My guess is that adding the PM and RR to your T supplement, might trigger some nice breast growth.  Just be careful of possible blood clots.    

Obviously I have no medical or scientific background to support my idea, so take it for what it's worth (probably not much).

Best regards,
ChuckM

[Cagedmuscle213]

I do not plan to do this at all. I love the gym, and I love and am obsessed with muscle and making more it. I am on test bc I want to be. Not bc I need to be any more than the average guy in their mid 30s... I am a body builder. And in that sport the only way to be competitive is to use steroids. Now I have really on done a hand full of shows and I do really care for the actual competition on stage. It is now more.of a lifestyle and choice for me to body build for me on my own. I will never be a pro or a winner of the Olympia I know that. But much like all of us here we are doing the things we do for ourselves bc we love it. 

Now all that aside this was just for argument sake since I have much experience with steroid and make hormones and what I have had experienced first hand on my own body using them as safely as possible (which is to say the least ignorant since I am not a Dr my self either) it's all just an experiment we do at our own risk. So knowing how male hormones react, I know and have seen first hand what it does when you go cold turkey.  Anyways. By no means do I plan to do this or advise anyone else to. It is purely for argument sake since we know the body's natural response is to balance the body as best as it can. So knowing that once test is stopped it will balance it out by making estrogen, but since the testicles stopped making testosterone since there was an excess of it due to a synthetic version being introduced to the body once stopped the testicles will be behind and will take some time to recover and get back to normal, much longer if you don't use the aid of a post cycle therapy to recover. 

I feel if anyone were to do this, it could potentially cause serious harm to the bodies ability to produce and manage hormones to create that equal balance it always trys to maintain. And once damaged it will most likely never be the same and the individual will most likely need a hormone replacement for which ever their body can no longer efficiently produce now.

[ChuckM]

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What was the point of your original post?  Was it just to see who would spend time putting a response together?  If you "do not plan to do this at all." why are you even on this site asking questions?  

Best regard,

[Cagedmuscle213]

Clearly you don't know how to read Chuck. I said for argument sake. But clearly youre one of those people who are always right and everyone else is always wrong. The whole post was just to generate discussion and get people talking where as you took everything literally... Even tho it clearly states hypothetically and for argument sake.... 

Learn to read my friend.

[Cagedmuscle213]

Go troll someone else chuck, you brave key board warrior you. You def sure showed me up. Congratulations... You.missed the whole point of the post by only reading what you wanted and not what was actually typed.... 

Have a nice day. Good luck to you and your efforts on doing what you have to do to obtain the body you want.

[ChuckM]

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Thank you, I appreciate your thoughts, and good luck to you too!

Best regards,