[prostatenipple]

Hi darlings

Am starting reading Lotus' thread "Breast Growing Notes" from 2014 (https://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=24358) and saw something interesting on the first post:

DHT- Dihydrotestosterone - The most potent androgen, destroys fat, and masculinizes.

Is there consensus on this topic?

This paper (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16741268/ and full-text: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full...by.2006.75) suggests that DHT increases obesity.

This one suggests the opposite? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2873614/


Can we use herbs and hormones / phytoestrogens to lose weight?

So is DHT good or bad for weight-loss?
If one wants to do NBE and is obese, should they increase DHT for a while to help lose fat, before taking anti-androgens / 5-AR inhibitors?

[Vana_B]

Just one random data point: 

I started taking Saw Palmetto quite a few years back to help alleviate a medical issue caused by excessively high testosterone levels.  Within a month of taking SP, I started to gain weight.  Prior to SP, I always had a hard time gaining weight.    Red Reshi has the same effect on me. 

My vote is reducing DHT makes it easier to gain fat.

[Chestnut]

Having just started to try to lose some weight, and being on the verge of starting Red Reishi, this is not news I really wanted to hear! Oh, well, more exercise…

[Stevenator_]

Am starting reading Lotus' thread "Breast Growing Notes" from 2014 (https://www.breastnexum.com/showthread.php?tid=24358) and saw something interesting on the first post:

DHT- Dihydrotestosterone - The most potent androgen, destroys fat, and masculinizes.

Is there consensus on this topic?

LoL

[Lotus]

I think prostatenipple misinterpreted the study. But here's the consensus... you know, from actual science.

The study said this:
“We hypothesized that DHT, a non-aromatizable androgen, decreases fat mass by regulating the differentiation of adipocyte progenitors, preadipocytes and hMSCs…

And this:

“Preadipocytes obtained from the abdominal subcutaneous, mesenteric and omental regions of men expressed low levels of AR protein under basal conditions; DHT upregulated AR expression in a dose dependent manner in all depots.”

Which makes sense because visceral fat still keeps growing (in the presence of DHT) because visceral fat has more mitochondria per milligram of tissue.

DHT Resides in visceral fat (in the belly of obese men)... this we already know because Visceral fat contains more mitochondria per milligram of tissue than subcutaneous fat. I've written about it quite a few times.

Hi Stevenator, great post, I like you're before and after pic. Here's what I'm seeing in the after pic. A tanner stage 4, what's important to me is seeing breast volume…which you have. Your obstacle is visceral fat as it prevents you and any other person on this forum wanting to grow breasts, and here's why. Breasts in overweight men are not seeing significant breast growth because of this conversion to E1 estrone (which is a much weaker estrogen) instead of being converted to E2 estradiol (the main breast growing estrogen).

Either way, it's great to have back, and i wish you all the best.  

And then there's this: 

NOW, I understand what Lotus has been telling us for years about visceral fat. 

Hi Stevenator, the simple truth is visceral fat is so much harder to get rid of. Plus, there's much more DHT in visceral fat than subcutaneous fat. And as we know DHT stops breast growth in tracks...cold. Eliminating the carbs and sugars are about 90% of the battle, becoming active is the other 10%, if you can't do HIIT that's okay too, any activity is a start.

In the past I've shared how having belly fat stores estrogen (in visceral fat) rather than converting it to usable free E2 (estradiol) inside ER receptor cells.

Mitochondrial respiration in subcutaneous and visceral adipose tissue from patients with morbid obesity
Kraunsøe R1, Boushel R, Hansen CN, Schjerling P, Qvortrup K, Støckel M, Mikines KJ, Dela F.
Author information

Erratum in
* J Physiol. 2010 Oct 15; 588(Pt 20):4055.
Abstract
Adipose tissue exerts important endocrine and metabolic functions in health and disease. Yet the bioenergetics of this tissue is not characterized in humans and possible regional differences are not elucidated. Using high resolution respirometry, mitochondrial respiration was quantified in human abdominal subcutaneous and intra-abdominal visceral (omentum majus) adipose tissue from biopsies obtained in 20 obese patients undergoing bariatric surgery. Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and genomic DNA (gDNA) were determined by the PCR technique for estimation of mitochondrial density. Adipose tissue samples were permeabilized and respirometric measurements were performed in duplicate at 37 degrees C. Substrates (glutamate (G) + malate (M) + octanoyl carnitine (O) + succinate (S)) were added sequentially to provide electrons to complex I + II. ADP ((D)) for state 3 respiration was added after GM. Uncoupled respiration was measured after addition of FCCP. Visceral fat contained more mitochondria per milligram of tissue than subcutaneous fat, but the cells were smaller. Robust, stable oxygen fluxes were found in both tissues, and coupled state 3 (GMOS(D)) and uncoupled respiration were significantly (P < 0.05) higher in visceral (0.95 +/- 0.05 and 1.15 +/- 0.06 pmol O(2) s(1) mg(1), respectively) compared with subcutaneous (0.76 +/- 0.04 and 0.98 +/- 0.05 pmol O(2) s(1) mg(1), respectively) adipose tissue. Expressed per mtDNA, visceral adipose tissue had significantly (P < 0.05) lower mitochondrial respiration. Substrate control ratios were higher and uncoupling control ratio lower (P < 0.05) in visceral compared with subcutaneous adipose tissue. 

We conclude that visceral fat is bio energetically more active and more sensitive to mitochondrial substrate supply than subcutaneous fat. Oxidative phosphorylation has a higher relative activity in visceral compared with subcutaneous adipose tissue.

visceral fat contains more mitochondrial matrix to make more fat from, and this can be completed as seen in billions of signals within minutes inside the mitochondrial matrix. So either burn the excess (energy) so it doesn't go to fat storage. Or...add a supplement that breaks down fats.

[wee2er]

Oh very interesting indeed so many thanks Lotus for re-iterating this again, much appreciated.

So, visceral fat is the enemy! (in more ways than just breast growth)

That's just re-emphasised my goals for 2024 >>> kill the carbs and sugar, more exercise and get rid of that waisteland spread

Many thanks.