[Teddy]

Hi,

I found an interesting short article from year 2005: https://www.huhs.edu/literature/Breast%2...nicals.pdf

It mentions well-known bust enhancing effect of Fenugreek and Wild Yam (both contain Diosgenin, which is a phytoestrogen). 

However, it also has some notes about other herbs such as Damiana, which is claimed to be a phytoprogestin - in ther words, contains a substance which acts as progesterone.

I wonder if anybody has experience with use of Damiana as a progesterone-equivalent?

If these herbs, Fenugreek and Damiana, work, a program based on these might be interesting to people living in countries which are very restrictive regarding improts of "unapproved" herbal products. To my knowledge, Fenugreek is available and sold as a spice "everywhere" and Damiana is sold also in most countries.

_Teddy

[prostatenipple]

Well that's interesting!

I've used Damiana in the past (and have a large number of capsules left), because it allegedly:
 - increases libido
 - increases testicle size
 - possibly increases ejaculation size

This forum has a few threads about Damiana:
https://thunders.place/male-supplements/...a-try.html

My own notes that I've collected, from Lotus' threads here, suggests there's no NBE advantage to using it (because it was never mentioned as a pro-NBE herb, but maybe it's just not as well-researched as others). The effect it also has to improve erectile dysfunction might also suggest it increases Testosterone levels.

I have other notes of my own, will have to dump them in here when I get time (tonight if I get a chance).

Thanks for the info, I'll grab that PDF and take a look at it.

[prostatenipple]

And this paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18948180/

suggests that it has an anti-aromatase activity (which is also another reason I looked into it, to reduce estrigen in order to lose weight), but it also says:

Conclusions: The extract of Turnera diffusa and two isolated compounds pinocembrin and acacetin could significantly suppress aromatase activity. Moreover, apigenin 7-glucoside, Z-echinacin and pinocembrin showed estrogenic activity.

So it seems to have anti-aromatase activity with estrogen activity.

[Teddy]

prostatenippleAnd this paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18948180/

suggests that it has an anti-aromatase activity (which is also another reason I looked into it, to reduce estrigen in order to lose weight), but it also says:

Conclusions: The extract of Turnera diffusa and two isolated compounds pinocembrin and acacetin could significantly suppress aromatase activity. Moreover, apigenin 7-glucoside, Z-echinacin and pinocembrin showed estrogenic activity.

So it seems to have anti-aromatase activity with estrogen activity.


Thank you for clarification! So it isn't a way to go for those members who are living in a country with very strict import controls. 
Luckily I have managed to get hold on some "bio-identical progesterone" cream, so for time being I manage pretty well. 
In Europe progesterone in any form isn't available as easily as in USA due to EU:s regulations.

[prostatenipple]

prostatenippleAnd this paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18948180/

suggests that it has an anti-aromatase activity (which is also another reason I looked into it, to reduce estrigen in order to lose weight), but it also says:

Conclusions: The extract of Turnera diffusa and two isolated compounds pinocembrin and acacetin could significantly suppress aromatase activity. Moreover, apigenin 7-glucoside, Z-echinacin and pinocembrin showed estrogenic activity.

So it seems to have anti-aromatase activity with estrogen activity.


Thank you for clarification! So it isn't a way to go for those members who are living in a country with very strict import controls. 
Luckily I have managed to get hold on some "bio-identical progesterone" cream, so for time being I manage pretty well. 
In Europe progesterone in any form isn't available as easily as in USA due to EU:s regulations.

I dont think anything I've read so far before today suggested that Damiana was a source of Progesterone.
However that doesn't mean it isn't a source - just surprises me that it might.

Damiana is available in the UK. (Holland & Barrett usually has it, it's expensive there, ebay is a better source).
But of course not sure about other countries.

As for Progesterone, I thought the NOW brand Progesterone cream (that we talked about in the other thread) was available on ebay, that's where I bought mine, and that's the stuff with USP Progesterone.  (maybe I should buy a bunch now then if it is going away??)

[prostatenipple]

As for Progesterone, I thought the NOW brand Progesterone cream (that we talked about in the other thread) was available on ebay, that's where I bought mine, and that's the stuff with USP Progesterone.  (maybe I should buy a bunch now then if it is going away??)

Wow ok so they are all out of stock on ebay. why???

[prostatenipple]

Ok here is a dump of all my notes on Damiana (a lot of it is raw and unsorted):




-------

Damiana (Turnera diffusa) has a rich history as a euphoric, nervine, and aphrodisiac in Mexico and other areas of Central and South America. It’s smoked or ingested with other psychotropic herbs such as kava during ceremonies for its ability to induce a euphoric and relaxed state of mind.

The relaxing qualities are often attributed for damianas aphrodisiac effects, but there’s another reason as well. Damiana contains a lot of the same compounds also found in [[Yohimbe]] — which has had a lot of research done to prove the effects on sexual function.

You can find damiana as a tea or tincture.

Origin: Mexico & Central America
Class of Aphrodisiac: Nervine Aphrodisiac


----


People report enlargement of testicles after a few days and also libido improvements. This stops after stopping the herb.

Effects are possibly only rumours or anecdotal evidence, as there seems to be no apparent medical studies (doesn't mean it invalidates the claims).

>modern research is lacking in its actual effectiveness as a sex enhancer.


>Bigger balls will not necessarily give you bigger loads. That’s mainly the job of your prostate. They might, however, be able to house more sperm.





## Effects in Men

Anecdotal experiences reported by people that took it:
- balls feel heavier
- bigger balls
- some say they cum more
- don't need to take cialis anymore
- seems to help with erection quality (firmer, harder, cock feels fuller and heavier)
- improvements in libido (some have experienced very noticeable increase)
- larger ejaculation loads ("shooting triple gulp loads", "the volume is amazing" for a person taking for 6 weeks)
- An apparent increase in blood-flow, not only to the genitals, but also to the other extremities
- Increased arousal
- A definitive feeling in the balls, the feeling is a slight pressure **like a hand squeezing your sack**.
- started trying damiana two days ago (along with Maca). Last night I stayed hard after I orgasmed and was instantly able to go for a second round.

### Questions:
- does it do anything for testosterone / DHT / SHBG / LH / FSH
- What anatomical changes are responsible for the added size? 
- Does the medical community have an opinion about this supplement?



### Dosing
Anecdotal experience:
- 2400mg to 3200mg per day (**better loads** and **horny as a dog**)
- Damiana has been working well for me, I take close to 3 grams per day.
- 2x450mg in morning and same in the evening. totalling 1800mg a day.
- about 1.5 gram/day(1500mg) now, up from the usual 1 gram/day I had been taking for the last 10 months
- A general guide is to take 2 to 4 grams (g) or less of dried damiana in tea or capsule form with meals, three times a day.  - Healthline article
- 1,500-1,600 mg, 2-3 times per day.  (https://www.medicinenet.com/damiana/article.htm)
- doses in my books listed at up to 3-4g 2x a day  (6 to 8g per day)

It appears 2000mg to 4000mg per day is likely to be safe.

## Sources
Holland and Barrett or ebay

## Warnings

Damiana can affect blood sugar levels. If you have diabetes, check your blood sugar carefully. Watch for signs of low blood sugar (hypoglycemia): headache, hunger, sweating, confusion, irritability, dizziness, or feeling shaky.

> you do get slight withdrawal from it

> It can be rough on your liver. It showed up on my blood tests. I was taking a somewhat high dose capsule form regularly to deal with depression.


## Medical studies

> __Anti-aromatase activity of the constituents from damiana (Turnera diffusa)__
> **Conclusions:** The extract of Turnera diffusa and two isolated compounds pinocembrin and acacetin could significantly suppress aromatase activity. Moreover, apigenin 7-glucoside, Z-echinacin and pinocembrin showed estrogenic activity.
> \- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18948180/


https://examine.com/supplements/damiana-...aphrodisia

https://examine.com/supplements/damiana-leaf/

This source suggests the anxiolytic properties of the plant come from its apigenin content:

[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21369434...21369434/)

It's poorly understood and not much research on it exists, but damiana certainly contains bioactive compounds with centrally active sedative/anxiolytic effects. Probably a good avenue to explore for aspiring pharmacologists...

Other research here:

[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16635964...16635964/)

[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21369462...21369462/)

The mechanism seems to be quite complex and unrelated to that of other sedatives. It's a flavanoid and may inhibit activity of α-glucosidase; an enzyme that produces glucose.

[https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/bio...ucosidase)

[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27581205...27581205/)

### Exploring scientifically proven herbal aphrodisiacs
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3731873/


## In relation to aphrodisiacs

![[Ultimate Guide To Herbal Aphrodisiacs Of The World#10. Damiana (Turnera diffusa)]]

## Select Quotes


> after 4 days of taking it I have had good results. My scrotum feels fuller and looks bigger. My cock looks and feels heavier.


>Damiana has helped a ton. I used to take cialis. I don’t need to anymore. It keeps me harder and firmer. My cock feels fuller and heavier. My balls DEFINITELY are heavier and fuller. And my libido is through the roof. I’ve also been shooting triple gulp loads. The volume is amazing. Been taking it about 6 weeks with my stack.

>As they got bigger, they got heavier and I found if I wore boxers all day, they hurt. I switched to pouch briefs to solve to problem. There’s no real downside to using damiana, it’s cheap, easy to get at any supplement shop and it works.

> this stuff just act in me like some kind of viagra!! I was really horny all the day, sometimes even after having sex I keep my erection, the amount of cum increase as well (I’m really serious telling that after 2 months my cum increase minimum a 50% plus) my girlfriend notice the difference in the performance, the cum, and in the time that I usually take to go to the next round.

> I used damiana in the past and not only did I see results in the size of my balls, but I was **shooting better loads** and **horny as a dog**. (Started off with 3 400 mg pills a day, went up as far as 6-8 a day.)  (so range was 2400mg to 3200mg)

>Powder works great in capsules. You can brew it as a tea too in a bag or just strain it after brewing. Anything stronger than a light tea is a bit loosening on the bowels for me so I prefer powder in capsules. I see doses in my books listed at up to 3-4g 2x a day. I use 500-1000mg to pep up herbal blends. It’s a gentle but effective herb. Some people say it gives them a buzz but I think that’s a big stretch. It’s just pleasantly uplifting and supportive of positive mood, well-being, and sexual health. Both short term and long term.
>
It’s a very friendly herb, however it can have a mild laxative and diuretic effect as well as lower blood sugar. Just thought I should mention. It works very well in blends too and can be applied in a lot of ways! I appreciate that most about it. Mix with calming adaptogen like tulsi for stress or something more stimulating like muira puama for energy and stamina.

> Damiana is a favorite of mine. I’ve used it daily for long periods of time as an adaptogen to promote general health by working its magic through the reproductive system. I generally use it together with [[Muira Puama]] for a variety of purposes.


>stated long term use may cause libido increase(suggesting a change in hormones), reversal of constipation issues in those who suffer from it chronically, headaches and "neurological" harm. But it never elaborated and it also never gave any credible sources. I have that belief that as long as you aren't drinking gallons of it a week and as long as you stop once you notice something off? It should be okay.


## Possible good effect for women and libido

> It increased my libido and state of mind I think. It’s also called the woman’s Viagra.

> Damiana works well for the ladies as an light aphrodisiac, a bit better than a few glasses of wine, without degrading orgasmic performance. [^3] It works better than alcohol.
> \ - [[zaneblue]]

> I give some to my wife every morning when I take it, and all I know is that she wants some sex pretty bad every night
> \- https://thunders.place/male-supplements/...ience.html

> It really does even more for my wife in the libido department-she takes it, too.



## Possible good effect for women for PMS

Anecdotal info:
- During premenstrual period, wife is moody and irritable, breasts become tender, less interest in sex.
- One person took damiana 10 days before next period. Breasts less tender, less moody, more interest in sex. Took 2 capsules per day, bottle recommended 1-3 per day.


## Sources

### Thunders Place forums:
- https://thunders.place/male-supplements/damiana.v3.html
- https://thunders.place/male-supplements/...a-try.html

[^3]: https://thunders.place/male-supplements/...try-2.html


https://www.healthline.com/health/damian...phrodisiac

https://www.medicinenet.com/damiana/article.htm
https://supplements.selfdecode.com/blog/damiana/

[Karen Hart]

Never mind.