[Tania80]

I am currently taking PM from Piping Rock brand. It is a PM root extract. And, thanks to the advice on that forum, I want to switch to the Ainterol brand because it has pure root.

I am taking 3 pills a day (total 3000mg of root extract), and I have about 130 Piping Rock pills left, which leaves me with about 40 days left (1.5 months). I would like to use them up and not throw them to trast, because the pills cost me money and they are working slowly,

My question is what procedure should I follow when I finish taking the Piping Rock pills.

Should I spend a period taking both pills? Or do I finish Piping Rock completely and then start Ainterol right away? Or do I take a break when I finish the Piping Rock pills, and for how long?

I am currently taking 3000mg, with Ainterol do I also start with 3000mg or a smaller amount? Which one and what plan?

I look forward to your answers/advice, greetings to all.
Tania

[Shirazmn]

Hi Tania

There is no specific procedure. The only "risk" is that you may be intolerant to some parts of the pure ground root. I would suggest that, for just one day, you take one cap of PM away from meals and see how your stomach responds. Then do the same during a meal and see the reaction. At the beginning it's common to see a slightly disturbed stomach on pure PM, but it gets better if it's taken during a meal. Personally, it was giving me some troubles originally if taken far from meals but I  quickly built a resistance and the effect seems to be better.
Depending on the above, you can decide your daily schedule.

Regarding the quantity, 3000mg of PM per day is probably too much. PM is effective starting at 1000mg/day, which is the dose for menopausal women. It then depends on your body and metabolism, but most grown men in the 80 to 100 Kg range take 1500 or 2000mg/day and it's very effective. I would usually suggest to do one week at 500, one at 1000, and one at 1500 before getting to 2000, but you are already using some sort of estrogenic substance so you souldn't need that. PM worked best for me at 2000mg/day, taking 1000 mg as soon as I woke up (one hour before the first coffee) and 1000mg before dinner or 2 hours after dinner (depending on when I had the chance).

[prostatenipple]

Regarding the quantity, 3000mg of PM per day is probably too much. PM is effective starting at 1000mg/day, which is the dose for menopausal women. It then depends on your body and metabolism, but most grown men in the 80 to 100 Kg range take 1500 or 2000mg/day and it's very effective.

That's quite interesting that there's a weight-dependent dose.
What would you say is a more appropriate dose for someone in the 100 - 130kg range?
Would it scale up, i.e. does someone at 130kg need to take 2500mg or 3000mg of PM?
And someone at 150kg needs 3500mg of PM?

[Shirazmn]

First: I am not a doctor, so take this with a pinch of salt. Every substance has dosage depending on age and body mass. PM's suggested dosage is 1000 mg/day, but that's for genetic women who weight what? 60/70 kg? I think a 130kg person should go for almost double the dosage. Plus, genetic males don't even have any basic natural estrogen production, so a higher dose could be excused.

[prostatenipple]

First: I am not a doctor, so take this with a pinch of salt. Every substance has dosage depending on age and body mass. PM's suggested dosage is 1000 mg/day, but that's for genetic women who weight what? 60/70 kg? I think a 130kg person should go for almost double the dosage. Plus, genetic males don't even have any basic natural estrogen production, so a higher dose could be excused.

Agreed. Except:
I was with you until you said that "genetic males don't even have any basic natural estrogen production"
Genetic males do produce estrogen. It gets converted to estrogen (17b-Estradiol (E2)) from Testosterone by way of the Aromatase enzyme (P450 Aromatase). Androstenedione (an androgen) also gets converted to either 17a-Estradiol (a-E2) via Aromatase, or to Estrone (E1) via Aromatase.

I think that's one of the reasons why Lotus' signature has this:

♦NBE Formula→Free Testosterone→5 alpha inhibitors→Aromatase→E1/E2....DNA→RNA→Protein ♦
♦Regulation of Estrogen & Progesterone-Hypothalamus→GnRH→Pituitary→FSH→Follicle→Estrogens ♦
♦ego cogito, ergo sum TG.

I think the theory above is to increase Testosterone, decrease DHT (by using 5-AR inhibitors), to elevate Free Testosterone, to then force as much of this Free Testosterone to convert to Estrogens via the Aromatase enzyme. And this then gets men... real boobs!

 (not too sure about the DNA/RNA/Protein section, but I need to study about that part of biology)

And I suppose that the above might indicate that a person might not need PM? PM is a phytoestrogen (I think that means it gets used by the body and then transported to cells, where it binds with estrogen receptors and tells them "hi! I'm estrogen! Do your thing that the DNA/RNA tells you to do, if you were getting real estrogen.", and then the cell (e.g. breasts) start building "stuff" like mamary glands and fat accumulation and shaping, and make extra nerves etc)

I'm not a biologist or a doctor. I'm in STEM though. There's a fair chance that I'm wrong. However, this is my actual understanding from all the notes I've so far built while reading this forum, and the Reddit NBE subreddit, and other trans-related topics. @Lotus, how far off am I?

[Shirazmn]

I should have written "males don't have natural production of E comparable to female's".
I am quite sure that you misunderstood what levels you can achieve with Aromatase alone. But I'll let Lotus reply, if she has the time.
Good luck with your journey.

[Tania80]

There is no specific procedure. The only "risk" is that you may be intolerant to some parts of the pure ground root. I would suggest that, for just one day, you take one cap of PM away from meals and see how your stomach responds. Then do the same during a meal and see the reaction. At the beginning it's common to see a slightly disturbed stomach on pure PM, but it gets better if it's taken during a meal. Personally, it was giving me some troubles originally if taken far from meals but I  quickly built a resistance and the effect seems to be better.
Depending on the above, you can decide your daily schedule.

Thank you very much for the advice, Shirazmn. Just one question: how long time away do you take the pill?

I understand that pure pills should be stronger on the stomach than extract pills, right? So do you think it is better not to mix and start the Ainterol pills right after finishing the Piping pills?

Regarding the quantity, 3000mg of PM per day is probably too much. PM is effective starting at 1000mg/day, which is the dose for menopausal women. It then depends on your body and metabolism, but most grown men in the 80 to 100 Kg range take 1500 or 2000mg/day and it's very effective. I would usually suggest to do one week at 500, one at 1000, and one at 1500 before getting to 2000, but you are already using some sort of estrogenic substance so you souldn't need that. PM worked best for me at 2000mg/day, taking 1000 mg as soon as I woke up (one hour before the first coffee) and 1000mg before dinner or 2 hours after dinner (depending on when I had the chance).

True, it makes sense, considering that Ainterol is much more potent, so I should take less than 3000 mg.

I had thought about starting with 1500 mg/day spread out three times a day: (when I get up, before lunch and before dinner). How do you see it?

Calculating, if I take 1500 mg/day, 3 bottles of Ainterol can cover me for 3 months aprox... The purchase of 3 bottles has cost me 55.5€ (delivered to home). Therefore, it will cost me 200€ per year. Is there a cheaper option to get Ainterol?

[Shirazmn]

From the last question: no. Unfortunately I don't know of any cheaper way to get PM. To me it looks like more or less every source of PM out there has similar prices. 

Pure PM pills can upset your stomach is you are not used to them. It changes from person to person, and I think it has more to do with food intolerance than hormonal shift. The only way to find out is to take oe or two caps and see how it goes. If it upsets your stomach, you can try and take it with food.

I used to take 1500 or 2000 mg/day. Usually one or two caps in th emorning (at least 30 minutes before coffee) and two in the evening, away from dinner or just before dinner. I could never be 100% precise with my schedule because I had to make sure my wife didn't see me taking them. I wouldn't do 500mg 3 times a day. I believe taht you need a small spike to get things going, and that's why I would always make sure to have 1000mg at least once a day in one dose.