[SweetO]

Lotus, sending you lots of hugs and kisses 

[Stevenator_]

Thanks for the update, Lotus. I've been concerned for you over the last several months. It's good to hear from you.

The improvement with your Leukemia is good news, but I hope that your neurologist can get you an earlier appointment if one becomes available.

Hang in there old friend. Continued prayers for your healing.

-D

[tomi66]

Sending positive thoughts and lots of prayers. You are an inspiration to us. Thanks for all you do, I have learned a lot from you, sometimes it takes a while to sink in, the science of NBE can have a lot of different interactions to decipher.

[HelloDiDi]

I'm so sorry, health issues suck. At least there was some good news too, get better soon.

[Lotus]

Hi friends, I apologize in advance for the length and complexity of this post, it's very important to alert everyone on the dangers of developing DVT. This will be a two or three part posting. 

the use of Pueraria Mirifica (PM) and contributing factors that lead to DVT (deep vein thrombosis) have been talked about here (per se). However, I'm listing the DVT risk factors on how it happens (aided by the Mayo Clinic).:

• Age. Being older than 60 increases the risk of DVT. But DVT can occur at any age.
  
• Lack of movement. When the legs don't move for a long time, the calf muscles don't squeeze (contract). Muscle contractions help blood flow. Sitting for a long time, such as when driving or flying, increases the risk of DVT. So does long-term bed rest, which may result from a lengthy hospital stay for a medical condition such as paralysis.
  
• Injury or surgery. Injury to the veins or surgery can increase the risk of blood clots.
  
• Pregnancy. Pregnancy increases the pressure in the veins in the pelvis and legs. The risk of blood clots from pregnancy can continue for up to six weeks after a baby is born. People with an inherited clotting disorder are especially at risk.
  
• Birth control pills (oral contraceptives) or hormone replacement therapy. Both can increase the blood's ability to clot.
  
• Being overweight or obese. Being overweight increases the pressure in the veins in the pelvis and legs.
  
• Smoking. Smoking affects how blood flows and clots, which can increase the risk of DVT.
  
• Cancer. Some cancers increase substances in the blood that cause the blood to clot. Some types of cancer treatment also increase the risk of blood clots.
  
• Heart failure. Heart failure increases the risk of DVT and pulmonary embolism. Because the heart and lungs don't work well in people with heart failure, the symptoms caused by even a small pulmonary embolism are more noticeable.
  
• Inflammatory bowel disease. Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis increase the risk of DVT.
  
• A personal or family history of DVT or pulmonary embolism (PE). If you or someone in your family has had one or both of these conditions, you might be at greater risk of developing DVT.
  
• Genetics. Some people have DNA changes that cause the blood to clot more easily. One example is factor V Leiden. This inherited disorder changes one of the clotting factors in the blood. An inherited disorder on its own might not cause blood clots unless combined with other risk factors.
  

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond...c-20352557

Next risk factor is lipids, and here's where PM can be more of a contributor to DVT. Having the bad cholesterol known as “LDL Low density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL)” can increase your chances of developing DVT. There's PM studies out there on women using PM that lowers LDL, very few (if any) on men using PM that lowers LDL. 

I think we've done okay warning new folks on the potential of DVT and PM intake at BN (Breastnexus)... there's more to do though because we still see/hear new cases of DVT. One huge risk factor is the amount of PM people consume. There's never been a warning label (that I can find) not to exceed 500mg per day… in the strongest language. 

Back in the day folks were encouraged to take 3,000mg to 4,000mg of PM per day, which we now know Is extremely dangerous. Still, some people think they know better and will do things their own way. 

Growing boobs are a long term venture, watching paint dry could be more thrilling than waiting for breasts to develop. My advice? focus on nipple enlargement first (more on the how to's later) and use E1/E2 bioidentical estriol cream. 

I'm considering suggesting using progesterone cream earlier with PM (just not on your breasts… yet, until you develop breast buds). The reason being, in MTF hrt using bioidentical progesterone with E2 (estradiol) lowers the risk of DVT. 

I don't recommend using synthetic E2 (e.g. Ethinyl Estradiol or EE) because of the higher risk of DVT from synthetic estradiol. Using bioidentical E2 is less of a threat to DVT, unless you're taking oral estradiol alone (or by itself). I'll add asap because there's more info to discuss and a new proposal.

Lipids/lipoproteins include triglyceride-rich particles in plasma and oxidized low density lipoprotein (LDL) can accelerate activation of prothrombin.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11487028/

Association Between Blood Lipid Levels and Lower Extremity Deep Venous Thrombosis: A Population-Based Cohort Study:
Triglyceride (TG)
Total cholesterol (TC)
High density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL)
Low density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL)

Higher TG levels might be associated with an increased risk of LEDVT (lower extremity Deep Vein Thrombosis). 
High TG levels were associated with increased risk of LEDVT. Low cholesterol levels have been confirmed to be associated with some chronic disease conditions, such as malignancy, rheumatic disorders, and hyperthyroidism. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9530559/

Plasma lipids or lifestyle interventions can lower the risks of DVT. 

Hormone therapy and venous thromboembolism among postmenopausal women: impact of the route of estrogen administration and progestogens: the ESTHER study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17309934/
Conclusions: Oral but not transdermal estrogen is associated with an increased VTE risk. In addition, our data suggest that norpregnane derivatives may be thrombogenic, whereas micronized progesterone and pregnane derivatives appear safe with respect to thrombotic risk. If confirmed, these findings could benefit women in the management of their menopausal symptoms with respect to the VTE risk associated with oral estrogen and use of progestogens.

Micronized progesterone and pregnane derivatives appear safe with respect to thrombotic risk. VTE risk associated with oral estrogen and use of progestogens.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17309934/

Use of hormones and risk of venous thromboembolism
https://journalrbgo.org/article/use-of-h...oembolism/

Venous thrombo-embolism as a complication of cross-sex hormone treatment of male-to-female transsexual subjects: a review
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23944849/

Lipid profiles and hypertriglyceridemia among transgender and gender diverse adults on gender-affirming hormone therapy
Shalem Y Leemaqz et al. J Clin Lipidol. 2023 Jan-Feb.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36473821/

Deep vein thrombosis (DVT)
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond...c-20352557

[Lotus]

Hi, thank you for the kind words and encouragement, it helps more than you know.   I have much to finish here before things get ugly.   First order is not having any regrets with anyone here... life is short, right? 

Ian, Sweet's, KayLady, CM213, Stevenator, tomi and Lara. I do plan on addressing the questions asked. 

[Stevenator_]

...

[IanW55]

Hi Lotus,

You are certainly having a tough time, there is not any words to say that have not already been said apart from we are right with you, may I send my best wishes to you.
Ian

[HelloDiDi]

I'll write this anecdote here as there's talk about PM and possible DVT risk.

I fit at least two criteria of possibly elevated risks taken from the recent post. Firstly, back then I used to smoke quite a bit, now thankfully over two years without. Secondly, I have genetically super thick blood. It carries oxygen extremely well, even large wounds stop bleeding very quickly and my hemoglobin levels are like from a biology textbook without anything special, just healthy enough food and exercise. Also I have a heart which acts up quite easily, this also is a genetic trait, both of these I have inherited from my fathers side. (Dad has been on blood thinners after a stroke scare and he likely had a minor blood clot in his brain which luckily melted away on its own, but that was crazy, he lost his close term memory completely for a day and still remembers nothing of that day!)

So the genetic disposition towards possible DVT from PM exists. Note that when I got the symptoms, I had been less than a year on PM, mostly on 1000-2000mg doses, I was super fit, working constuction, drumming riding bike, lifting weights, eating healthy and so on, I was thirty six years old back then. So age and physical fitness might have nothing to do with possible risk factors.

Reasoning for these warnings and moderate dosing are very sound and based on lived experience and there's absolutely no sense in playing around with luck on these things as a mistake might turn fatal.

[Stevenator_]

I think one member here on BN actually had to have surgery for DVT because of PM.

I was one of the users who early on was taking 3,000mg of PM until I learned more better. I'd have excruciating leg cramps that'd literally made me fall off the couch. Thank goodness I lowered my daily dose in time. It's definitely not something to mess around with.