[Nadi]

I have a question for the specialists here, especially Lotus and HelloDiDi:

Besides BO (meanwhile 1,250 mg/day) and Bi-Est 5.0 (scrotal 2 x 1 mg ) I have tried everything possible as an antiandrogen such as RR and WP, but did not tolerate this.

For a few weeks now I have been taking an oral Vitex tincture together with a T-blocker gel based on SP and have had very good experiences with it. I have the impression that it reduces my T level and my little one has become even tinier and remains soft, which I really appreciate.

The Italian manufacturer of Vitex Tinctur Naturalma recommends taking 1 to 3 times 40 drops per day. As I have read that the anti-androgenic effect in men is only given in high doses, I take the maximum dose of 3 times 40 drops, which corresponds to a total of 600 mg of Vitex.

Now to my questions:

Do you think this dose is safe to take over a longer period of time?

I have also ordered Bica and would like to take half a 50 mg pill every other day. Do you think that I can take this with Vitex or should I leave Vitex out?

Many thanks for your thoughts on this!

[HelloDiDi]

Vitex is said to elevate progesterone levels, I'm not sure about it being anti androgenic, but 600mg doesn't sound too much. I'm taking 1600mg a day as capsules and have zero problems with it. I wonder if the liquid tincutre form is stronger, I have only tried capsules so far. Since I started taking Vitex & EPO combo, my breast development has been quite positive and it feels like its doing some sort of balancing thing, bit similar as what BO does.

So dosage is all good and you could likely easily go even higher without problems. I'm on this combo for five and half months right now and I love it, I need to stock up on both soon as i'm running low. Is this a long time? Six months soon? Zero issues, its one of those nice simple herb things that I've found useful.

25mg Bica per day is a LOT, are you sure you need that much? If you take that much, you probably should lower your dose once it has built up enough. 50mg PER WEEK can be enough once there's decent T suppression going on. I'm switching on Bica hopefully soon, I should get them within about a week or so and I'm planning on waning down Cypro while starting Bica on very small dose. Due to long halflife, 25mg taken biweekly can work. It averages to 7,14mg per day which should be enough at this stage of having T suppressed really well for quite long time.

I don't think there's any issue taking Vitex at the same time.

[Nadi]

Thank you so much for your super-quick reply!

I also take Vitex together with Omega 3 fish oil, which contains EPO. I also have very positive experiences and feel calmer when I take Vitex.

With Bica, it's a misunderstanding. I plan to take 25 mg only every other day. Maybe I'll start with even less like you recommended. I'm also waiting for the delivery. It was sent out on Thursday. 

[HelloDiDi]

I'm not sure about dosing Bica, but from my understanding it can be started on higher dose and then lowered quite a bit while still being enough. 25mg every otehr day would be 12,5mg per day, that's the same as Cypro and Bica is at least as potent if not better, although it functions in a different manner which might be better.

Omega3s are building blocks for estrogens among other things they do, it works well with EPO which is omega6 which then goes really nicely along with Vitex. Its another of these things which has over all positive health effects and does good things on hormone balance. I wish there would be some science on this, I'm basing this on few anecdotes and trying it out. Defnitely one of the supplements I wish I keep taking.

[Nadi]

Bica arrived today and I have just taken the first half tablet. 

Regarding the Bica dose, I read that prostate cancer patients take 150 mg/day and MTF transgender are usually prescribed 50 mg/day (see Dr. Powers). I think half a tablet every other day is more likely to be the minimum.

I was not aware of the positive effects of a combination of Omega3 / EPO and Vitex. So much the better! I would also like to see more scientific studies on this.

[HelloDiDi]

It can work fine with much less. 50mg a day is absolute fuckton of the stuff. But what ever is good, what ever works. I don't think it just makes sense to take more than what is needed for good enough T suppression. Or in this case receptor suppression and curbing DHT. But what do I know, I haven't even tried it yet.