[SweetO]

Lara, if I haven't misunderstood Lotus's suggestions... should we do one day of PC + DHEA and the next day E + DHEA?

[Heaven's Night]

Hi SweetO, I've been doing both daily, but prog from capsules in a 15/15 cycle. I've thought to do that every other day and see how it works. Right now I'm switching blockers which is messing my moods up a bit so I will wait that out before making more changes. But the idea is interesting as Prog has fast half life. I know when I'm off of (most of) it, my prolactin goes way higher which is kinda interesting as I tend to benefit from that quite a bit.

Anyway its an interesting idea worth a try.

EDIT:
I'll stop answering this stuff anywhere except my own thread as I'm too stupid to even understand things, I keep forgetting stuff and I'm not good at science stuff as even the language alone is too complicated. I'm just a dumb Finn trying out stuff and seeing what sticks anyway.

[Lotus]

Sweets, why not ask me?... it is my recommendation, no? (it's cool though). There's more to this variable method I described of alternating E2 cream , meaning for some people who might be estrogen dominant the every other day usage would limit the over exposure of estradiol to help balance estrogen dominance.

There's another situation when women are given antibiotics to eliminate bacteria and the antibiotics end up eliminating good (and bad) bacteria. And in that scenario (any) bacteria in the vagina accelerates yeast infections. Adding topical estradiol stops the yeast infection within 5 days or so. More info to follow. 

[SweetO]

Sweets, why not ask me?... it is my recommendation, no? (it's cool though). There's more to this variable method I described of alternating E2 cream , meaning for some people who might be estrogen dominant the every other day usage would limit the over exposure of estradiol to help balance estrogen dominance.

There's another situation when women are given antibiotics to eliminate bacteria and the antibiotics end up eliminating good (and bad) bacteria. And in that scenario (any) bacteria in the vagina accelerates yeast infections. Adding topical estradiol stops the yeast infection within 5 days or so. More info to follow. 

Oh no Lotus!  Don't get me wrong! I asked Lara cause she stated she has tried 15 days on and off, but your message was implying to alternate Estrogen actually, so I got confused. Sorry!! Didn't meant to be rude.

Now this got me thinking... using E during luteal phase..  I wonder what will happen   My period is next week, so I'll definitely give this a try!

[spanky (aka Lola)]

I have a question that I hope somebody here can answer.  Are PSA tests invalid if you are taking estradiol valerate?  If EV does compromise PSA test validity, how long do you have to abstain from EV to get a valid test result?

[Jessi]

Making a comment to put myself in the notification loop-I'm interested in that question as well. 

I'm assuming from my reading that by invalidate, you mean render useless... I'm assuming from my reading elsewhere that estrogens will lower PSA levels as a good thing. I did find this list of things that affect PSA, from a urology clinic

https://www.advancedurology.net/blog/10-...psa-levels

that suggest if you're taking anything that could raise or lower PSA levels, to let your provider know when getting the test done, presumably so they can factor that in.

In my case I'm wanting to try some Bi-Est cream but wouldn't care to broadcast that to my provider (as I wouldn't actually be transitioning and no one knows I wish to intentionally trigger breast growth) so I'm also very much interested in a rough estimate of time one should cease supplemental estrogens before getting a PSA done. Although I suppose the same could be said for most of what we might be taking here on Breast Nexum as either phytoestrogen or AAs.

I suppose the 'invalidness' comes from if someone unknowingly had prostate cancer but had lowered their PSA via the EV or supplements- which is a good thing- but might hide the presence of the cancer from the physician? 

That URL I provide gives various wait times before taking a PSA test for things that might temporarily increase your PSA level, but it really doesn't detail much of what to do other than inform the doctor of things you're doing that might lower it... I think in the absence of information I'd personally wait maybe a month or six weeks off everything, to be safe? Does that seem like enough time?

[spanky (aka Lola)]

Making a comment to put myself in the notification loop-I'm interested in that question as well. 

I'm assuming from my reading that by invalidate, you mean render useless... I'm assuming from my reading elsewhere that estrogens will lower PSA levels as a good thing. I did find this list of things that affect PSA, from a urology clinic

https://www.advancedurology.net/blog/10-...psa-levels

that suggest if you're taking anything that could raise or lower PSA levels, to let your provider know when getting the test done, presumably so they can factor that in.

In my case I'm wanting to try some Bi-Est cream but wouldn't care to broadcast that to my provider (as I wouldn't actually be transitioning and no one knows I wish to intentionally trigger breast growth) so I'm also very much interested in a rough estimate of time one should cease supplemental estrogens before getting a PSA done. Although I suppose the same could be said for most of what we might be taking here on Breast Nexum as either phytoestrogen or AAs.

I suppose the 'invalidness' comes from if someone unknowingly had prostate cancer but had lowered their PSA via the EV or supplements- which is a good thing- but might hide the presence of the cancer from the physician? 

That URL I provide gives various wait times before taking a PSA test for things that might temporarily increase your PSA level, but it really doesn't detail much of what to do other than inform the doctor of things you're doing that might lower it... I think in the absence of information I'd personally wait maybe a month or six weeks off everything, to be safe? Does that seem like enough time?

[spanky (aka Lola)]

Making a comment to put myself in the notification loop-I'm interested in that question as well. 

I'm assuming from my reading that by invalidate, you mean render useless... I'm assuming from my reading elsewhere that estrogens will lower PSA levels as a good thing. I did find this list of things that affect PSA, from a urology clinic

https://www.advancedurology.net/blog/10-...psa-levels

that suggest if you're taking anything that could raise or lower PSA levels, to let your provider know when getting the test done, presumably so they can factor that in.,

In my case I'm wanting to try some Bi-Est cream but wouldn't care to broadcast that to my provider (as I wouldn't actually be transitioning and no one knows I wish to intentionally trigger breast growth) so I'm also very much interested in a rough estimate of time one should cease supplemental estrogens before getting a PSA done. Although I suppose the same could be said for most of what we might be taking here on Breast Nexum as either phytoestrogen or AAs.

I suppose the 'invalidness' comes from if someone unknowingly had prostate cancer but had lowered their PSA via the EV or supplements- which is a good thing- but might hide the presence of the cancer from the physician? 

That URL I provide gives various wait times before taking a PSA test for things that might temporarily increase your PSA level, but it really doesn't detail much of what to do other than inform the doctor of things you're doing that might lower it... I think in the absence of information I'd personally wait maybe a month or six weeks off everything, to be safe? Does that seem like enough time?

Jessi - Thanks for the reply.  Perhaps "invalid" is not exactly the right word.  In any case, I know that urologists like to compare PSA test results over time, and if there is a significant increase their antennae go up.  In my case, a year ago I had a PSA test taken after a couple of months off estradiol.  This year, I had been taking estradiol until just a couple of weeks before the newer PSA test was taken.  The result of the second test was a little lower than the prior test.  

[Lotus]

Spanky, the following information details what meds/supplements lower or raises PSA (Prostate-specific antigen) scores. If your goal is to fly under the urologist's radar, follow the meds/supplements that inhibit prostate cancer. 

Certain herbal supplements can lower PSA and reduce prostate cancer risk:

Green Tea
Genistein
Astaxanthin 
White peony

Impact of Common Medications on Serum Total Prostate-Specific Antigen Levels: Analysis of the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey
https://ascopubs.org/doi/10.1200/JCO.2009.27.9406
We found that men using NSAIDs, statins, and thiazide diuretics have reduced PSA levels by clinically relevant amounts. 

These Medications Can Increase Your PSA Levels
https://www.verywellhealth.com/these-med...ls-8603113

PSA-Test
https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedu...c-20384731

What is the role of estradiol hormones in prostate cancer?
Estrogens work to suppress tumor growth in prostate cancer. In the medical community, interest in using estradiol in addition to standard ADT for prostate cancer treatment is increasing.

A large randomized trial Trusted Source from the United Kingdom in 2021 recently showed that advanced prostate cancer patients treated with estradiol transdermal patches achieved similar levels of castration as with ADT alone.

The findings also revealed no increase in cardiovascular events such as heart attack or stroke, which have been associated with standard ADT treatment.

Importantly, estrogens have been shown to have a significant effect on prostate cancer Trusted Source that has stopped responding to standard ADT. Estrogens may also help prevent some of the known side effects of ADT like hot flashes.
https://www.healthline.com/health/advanc...ate-cancer

[spanky (aka Lola)]

Thanks, Lotus.  Perhaps I should just be happy that E seems to be controlling my PSA levels nicely and stop looking for any downside.  I have periodically added white peony, but think I may add in green tea as well.    

I would very much like to start using a homemade progesterone cream.  I have not yet identified a good micronized brand, nor do I have a good recipe.  If you have any recs, I would gladly give them a try!