[Brigitte]

Hi, have any of you tried using Estriol Cream, which contains natural estrogen, as part of your regime combined with PM? Apparently it needs to be used in combination with Progesterone Cream? Any helpful advice or first hand experience would be most appreciated. I'm just starting out and want to get there using the best possible plan... xx

[chrishoney]

Brigitte,

Welcome.

I would recommend you start looking into the difference between estriol, estrone and estradiol, the three forms of estrogen normally found in natal females. (Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen to start with.) Estradiol is some 80X more potent than estriol, which is the weakest of the three. This is one reason why you can buy 'natural' estriol cream OTC; it has very weak estrogenic effects. Also, realize that they are calling it 'natural' since it is synthesized from either soy or wild yam, but it does NOT naturally occur in any plant that I have heard about.

I would also recommend reading what other members who have achieved enviable growth are doing, and follow their lead. I suspect you will be hard pressed to find any of them using estriol cream as a major part of their program.

In my opinion, to achieve breast enlargement we have two options: use bioidentical estradiol (some would argue that would not be NATURAL breast enlargement since it entails taking pharmaceutical grade hormones), or the strongest phytoestrogens we can find. Our task is pretty different than our natal sisters pursuing NBE in that we are essentially trying to stimulate the initial part of female puberty in which the breasts begin to develop and grow. Therefore, we want to use phytoestrogens that mimic the effects of estradiol as closely as possible. You will find a number of herbs and supplements that fit that bill, as well as others that many (including me) think are largely a waste of time and money. You need to do some searching on your own to figure that out. I know others have used massage and vacuum to great effect, but to my way of thinking, those are adjunctive methods at best.

In any event, welcome and enjoy the journey--"what a long strange trip it's been!"

[Brigitte]

Thanks so much for going to the trouble of giving me a full and informed rundown on estriol. Much appreciated. I'm about to start a program of PM with SP and will report results... fingers crossed :-)

[prostatenipple]

Brigitte,

Welcome.

I would recommend you start looking into the difference between estriol, estrone and estradiol, the three forms of estrogen normally found in natal females. (Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen to start with.) Estradiol is some 80X more potent than estriol, which is the weakest of the three. 


AND


In my opinion, to achieve breast enlargement we have two options: use bioidentical estradiol (some would argue that would not be NATURAL breast enlargement since it entails taking pharmaceutical grade hormones), or the strongest phytoestrogens we can find.

Resurrecting a very old thread.

The notes I have say roughly speaking that Estrogen Receptor Alpha is the one that is involved with breast development.

17-beta-estradiol binds equally well to alpha and beta receptors. Estriol and genistein bind mostly to beta receptors.

RC, FG, Fennel, and PM, all are sources of this isoflavonoid.


PM also contains miroestrol, deoxymiroestrol, among others.

PM is considered here to be the strongest phytoestrogen (besides perhaps BO).

This table:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Affinities_of_estrogen_receptor_ligands_for_the_ER%CE%B1_and_ER%CE%B2

Shows that (when ordered by relative binding on ERa), deoxymiroestrol has an ERa relative binding of 2, miroestrol has 0.39.
Estradiol is 100.
And Estriol is 12.65 !

Doesn't this mean that even though Estriol is not the preferred estrogen to use for breast growth, it is several times more powerful than PM?
Should this be used instead of PM (if you can find a reputable source)?