[julieTG]

Hi all,

Just trying to figure out "why" we are all doing this,

Being TG not TS for me I think its validation and "feeling" like a woman rather than growing and dressing up and "looking" like one,

Any thoughts ?

Julie

[Chrissiegirl]

Julie, I am left unclear as to what you are saying.
As TS, it is about becoming the woman you always knew you should have been. TG/TV is a much more complex space and I do not fully understand it; as it is outside my experience. For a TS, it is about living your life, as you, a woman. I have nailed my colours to the mast; my restaurant is "Chrissies Kitchen" and I am accepted, by most people, here in Conwy, as Chrissie and life is good.The girls visit & no one bats an eyelid.
A dear friend of mine, who is TV, expresses it, as getting in touch with the femanine side of herself. She does not want to transition and would avoid PM like the plague.

I am worried about the term TG, as it covers all cases and, as such, masks the conplexities of what is going on. I do not want to delve into the TV mind, but eqully, please understand the TS mind. We do not dress up like a woman, we grow into the person we always should have been and, of course we want to look like the person we are. The best evidence is that the core nucleas of the siriata termanalis, in our brain, is wired up in female mode. There is nothing you can do about that, but accept the hand, fate dealt yo.,

[julieTG]

Chrissie,
yes agreed that is the case for some, but not all,

I was speaking with a TG in Usa yesterday she has grown very large breasts from synthetics and had them 4 years, she is presenting as male and female and that is her mast,

Also she is functional down below and will not alter that as she enjoys that part, also she has been "out" for 15 years,

So not all black and white and by no means is she the only one

Julie

[chrishoney]

The best evidence is that the core nucleas of the siriata termanalis, in our brain, is wired up in female mode. There is nothing you can do about that, but accept the hand, fate dealt yo.,

Sorry Chrissiegirl I just can't keep reading the same errors of fact repeated over and over. The structure you mention is the "stria terminalis," and what you have referred to as being "wired up in female mode" and by inference implicating it as being responsible for gender identity, is ONLY a THEORY, and not even a strong one at that. Here is a description of a single study (hardly overwhelming evidence) with ONLY 6 MTF and ONLY ONE FTM subjects (hardly a representative sample of the population at large, or even the transexual community):

The central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) is sexually dimorphic. On average, the BSTc is twice as large in men as in women and contains twice the number of somatostatin neurons.[5] A sample of six male-to-female transsexuals taking estrogen were found to have female-typical number of cells in the BSTc, whereas a female-to-male transsexual taking testosterone was found to have a male-typical number.[6][7] The authors of those studies indicated that the finding could have been because of the hormones being taken by the study participants or because the stria terminalis causes gender identity. However, the authors also examined subjects with hormone-related disorders and found no pattern between those disorders and the BSTc while the single untreated male-to-female transsexual had a female-typical number of cells. They therefore concluded that the BSTc points to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder. However, in a follow up study by the same group, they found that the sexual dimorphism of the BSTc is not present before adulhood (approximately 22 years of age) even though transsexuals report being aware of their gender identity since childhood.[8]
The bed nucleus of the stria terminalis has also been reported to be smaller in another sexually atypical group, pedophilic males.[9]

This ONLY suggests a neurobiological basis for gender identity, it does not prove it. As with practically every other human trait ever cataloged, for gender identity, there is a huge spectrum of possibilities, of which only a couple support the idea of a binary system of choices. For some of us, it is NOT as simple as "are you a boy or a girl". Some people identify as both, or even neither. I am happy that you have found yourself, but not all the rest of us share your binary outlook on life, hence the need for terms like transgender (which by the way, does nothing to obscure the complex nature of the topic at hand.)

Sorry, I guess that's my hot-button issue. I will quietly skulk back into the corner and resume lurking.

[doesthatmakemeagoth]

Another lurker creeping out of the shadows wow it;s bright out here...

I have no clue which side of the T line I fall. I'm me. Why I'm trying to develop breasts - not sure. I do not want to identify as female, but am unhappy identifying fully as male. Like my religious status, my gender identity is best described as 'Mine'.

As a firm believer in the tenets of science, a truly complete study of the physiology of CD/TS/TG/MTF/FTM/ATM/FBI/CIA/ADHD/ADD/TLA/ETC would be appreciated by those that even marginally identify with the groupings would be good, but my basic understanding of capitalism say's we're gonna be left out in the woods for a while still.

Perhaps my reasoning is linked to my Anxiety and Depression Disorder, or maybe it's an offshoot of my borderline ADHD. The meds for these has allowed me to think about clearer about my wanting to develop breasts, and has definitely taken the edge off the strong compulsion to go about it in an unhealthy manner, but the 'want' has not weakened.

If pressed, the best explanation I can come up with for my wanting to CD & develop breasts is because that's what I want.

The key words here are Me and I. Maybe it's the anarchist in me that wants to demonstrate my own self-sovereignty, maybe I'm just weird (maybe a little of both, with some chemical X (ala Powerpuff girls ) thrown in for good measure)

I've always identified more with strong women characters in fiction, rather than the traditional male heroes, an identity that's almost matched by identifying with anti-heroes of either gender.

Personally, I cannot understand the whole born in the wrong body thing - but because I don't understand it, doesn't mean I hold it in doubt or consider it invalid, but I do feel that each of us will have their own reasons, some will be so similar as to be identical, others will be radically different.

On a side note, do tomgirls get asked or wonder why they prefer climbing trees to playing with dolls? Do little girly girls get asked why they play with dolls and tea sets rather than toy guns and tanks?

The best we can do, IMHO, is to be accepting of others who have identities different to us or the mainstream, allow people to be themselves, regardless of social norms, and the question of 'why do you do this' gets replaced with 'would you like a cuppa?'

That's kind on topic isn't it?

>

[doesthatmakemeagoth]

ah damn, there's always that one thing you forget to add to your original reply.

@ChrissieGirl I've read a number of your posts and you and your current community are a shining beacon of how society could and should be. While I disagree with the impression that comes through in your post of a binary gender identity (as previously pointed out) you do have twice as much life experience as me, and have obviously done more research than me into such matters, any disagreement comes with much respect.

Have a fabulous weekend all, I'll try stay in my corner a little longer this time

[Chrissiegirl]

The problem with research, into the structure of a transexual brain, is the incredibly small number of samples available, for analisys. However, the available evidence points to a nature, not nurture cause, for transexualism. There is anecdotale evidence, that there is a genetic link [holds true in my family] and no form of therapy can suppres it. It is so imbeded, that all transexuals have known that they should have been born, as the other gender, from their earliest, sentient memories. To me this all suggests a physical cause and, at present, the research, suggesting a link to the siratia trmanalis, is all that gives validation to the experience of being transexual. All my life, I fought with the idea that it was some sort ot neurosis, that I could fight and supress; the result was a life lived in the shadows of depression; what a waste of life. Having come out, no many female friends, have said that they are not surprised, because there was "something about me". One has even said, that she always thought I was one of the girls; yet at this time I was fighting against myself and trying hard to be male. Like all transexuals, you know that this is more than a fantasy, more than a quirk of up bringing; this is something fundamental, to the very core, of your being. I know that this is not scientific, but the very experience of being transexual, tells you that there is a fundamental driver, that is bigger than you. One lady, I know was commited, for being transexul and subjected to ECT and aversion therapy, over a number of years; did it work; did it hell! The cause of this clearly lies in the brain and, at present, a link to the sirata termanalis is all we have to go on. It was the possibility of such a link, that gave me the will to go on and find myself, without it, I do not know how much longer I could fave fought my demons, trying to convince nyself that this was all a neurosis. All I know is that it is the only explanetion, to date, of the transexual condition and, as such, it has empowered me.