[Pansy-Mae]

Hi sfem,

Was the three weeks after PM, or after other herbs?

I was surprised to find puerarin increases dopamine directly:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=36473#pid36473
and I'd be surprised if someone can stop dopamine cold turkey without withdrawal symptoms.

I can't speak for sfem, obviously, but I stopped PM ( and SP) 'cold turkey', as you put it, myself in mid-May this year, for 4 weeks. The only effect I noticed was the fat loss to my boobs which was visually noticeable after no more than 2 weeks and generated 'unhappiness'!

[bryony]

Does that mean PM or _any_ herbal or hormone capsule? I guess that leaves pumping, hypnosis or fugeddaboudit?

My experience is with PM only. Hopefully there are some Herb Experts out there that can answer your question.

Karen

Sorry, I meant what's next for you? ... I thought when you said "no more capsules" you either meant PM or _any_ herb. Just curious (or nosey?)

Bryony

[karen]

The Trans world is not an easy space; add to that a concern, about the effects of substances and you are only compounding the problems. As people we are hugely driven by our hormones. I truly think, that, unless you have straddled, the gender divide, you will never, truly understand that. In every minutiae, of how we behave, we are creatures of our hormones. We can embrace or eschewe those results, but they can never be ignored. If oestrogen makes you feel bad, so be it; if it makes you feel good, why run away from it.
I am not here to advocate transsexulaism; I am more concerned with those, who tinker, at the edges, with potentialy disasterous consequences. I also worry about those, who cannot bring themselves, to confront, the reality, of who they are.

It's not a Black and White World Chrissie. There are not only two options. Your worrying is kind .... but at the same time it's not right to look at everyone through "You Are" OR "You Are Not" viewpoint

This is a world, riddled with mental health problems, if I can save a poor soul from depression, or worse; that is good enough for me.
Perhaps I am fortunate, in being un-ambiguous, about, my status, but that status has only been acheived, through years and years of soul searching and the realisation, that with oestrogen, I am a far happier person.

Again your concern is noble .... but you do lack a little "objectivity" which is exactly what's needed to help others. Might be better left to the Professionals.

I am well aware that there are those, who seek a middle way, who are ambiguous, about their status and, also, that to confront the reality, of being transsexual is an agonising process. Please, however, do not equate hormones, with recreational drugs: - different animal; passage.

There is also the chance that they do not fit into the same mold as you and that what they wish to accomplish is different than what you want to accomplish.

IMHO I think offering information and sharing experiences and then letting people decide for themselves is all I can do. I am not a professional ..... don't profess to be one .... and I don't wish to place my values on another person ....

Karen

[sfem]

After PM Isabelle. As a matter of fact, to re-test the premise, as of yesterday I stopped taking the maintenance PM I have been on. We'll see if in a few weeks I have anything different to report. Two days of no PM and I don't notice any changes. I don't expect anything different from last time but I'm always open to testing plausible theories.

Chrissie, I appreciate your concerns and value your thoughts. But I am not transsexual in the way you have described it. I am not ambiguous either. I am just me. And I am not typical. But it doesn't mean I'm half of a person in some strange way. I am not a mixed up person who doesn't know who to be. If it helps, think of me as more than just a gendered-limited individual. Homo-sapiens V1.5. But please do not stop or slow the sharing of your thoughts on the topic. I do believe the unrestricted interchange of thoughtful discussion is the most valuable thing this website has to offer.

Oh, and if anyone wants to take my comments really seriously and start some kind of debate about labels or whether you can be more than a single-gendered person, don't expect me to participate. I don't feel any need to publicly justify my view of myself.

[chrissie]

I am feeling seriously misunderstood. I have no ambivalence about my gender itentity; I am TS passage! Those of you, who are not, are, by definition, ambivalent; it is that simple. I neither condone or judge; I accept, and embrace, the diversity of human nature; I have dear friends who are ambivalent.
I have concerns; for the ambivalent, who expose thmselves, to problems and for the TS, who are incredibly vulnerable and need all the support they can get. That is my position-passage.

[Isabelle]

Thank you Pansy Mae and sfem,

I hope more people report their experiences: then we can get an idea of how widespread these effects are.

[vmiku914]

Tbis was an interesting read. I have also stopped PM for a while and found myself content for a while before needing it again, not due to addiction, but to the disgust with my masculine side(just feels wrong). PM did give me the axiety feeling you mentioned, but I have discovered that it was due to bombarding my system too quickly with high doeses. I was able to get around it by easing myself in low does then increase it every week.

[karen]

Tbis was an interesting read. I have also stopped PM for a while and found myself content for a while before needing it again, not due to addiction, but to the disgust with my masculine side(just feels wrong). PM did give me the axiety feeling you mentioned, but I have discovered that it was due to bombarding my system too quickly with high doeses. I was able to get around it by easing myself in low does then increase it every week.

Hi Vicki ...

My doses weren't really high ... only lasted 5 days (those are 500 mg capsules)

September 9th, 2011 @ 4:30AM
I took my 1st PM Capsule

September 10, 2011
6:30 AM took 1 PM Capsule
6:30 PM took 1 PM Capsule

September 11, 2011
5:20 AM took 1 PM Capsule
7:20 PM took 1 PM Capsule

September 12, 2011
4:30 AM took 2 PM Capsules
5:00 PM took 1 PM Capsule

September 13, 2011
5:48 AM took 2 PM Capsules

At least I don't "think" thats high when I hear what others take. Don't really know why .... but it wasn't my "thing"

Hugs .... Karen

[vmiku914]

Tbis was an interesting read. I have also stopped PM for a while and found myself content for a while before needing it again, not due to addiction, but to the disgust with my masculine side(just feels wrong). PM did give me the axiety feeling you mentioned, but I have discovered that it was due to bombarding my system too quickly with high doeses. I was able to get around it by easing myself in low does then increase it every week.

Hi Vicki ...

My doses weren't really high ... only lasted 5 days (those are 500 mg capsules)

September 9th, 2011 @ 4:30AM
I took my 1st PM Capsule

September 10, 2011
6:30 AM took 1 PM Capsule
6:30 PM took 1 PM Capsule

September 11, 2011
5:20 AM took 1 PM Capsule
7:20 PM took 1 PM Capsule

September 12, 2011
4:30 AM took 2 PM Capsules
5:00 PM took 1 PM Capsule

September 13, 2011
5:48 AM took 2 PM Capsules

At least I don't "think" thats high when I hear what others take. Don't really know why .... but it wasn't my "thing"

Hugs .... Karen

It doesn't seem high. I understand now what you mean about "not your thing". I look forward to seeing what you find that works for you. Keep in touch.

[chrissie]

Hi Vicky,
Here lies the rub; I truly beleive that, if you are transsexual, you will embrace PM, as the thing, that was missing from your life. If, you are not; you will react badly. QED oestrogen is diagnostic.
Karen, the amounts , that you took are tiny and over such a short time; to be insignificant, in the great scheme of things. Clearly, PM, is not for you.
Vicky, I ully endorse your feelings of disgust, about the male side; welcome onboard, dear sister.