[karen]

Anyone have 1st hand experience with "Natures Answer Liquid Hops Extract" ... or maybe to a similar liquid Hops Extract?

This is the stuff ....

http://www.vitacost.com/Natures-Answer-H...le-Extract

On the bottle it says "Suggest Usage: As a dietary Supplement take 1-2 ml (26-58 drops) 3 times a day in a small amount of water".

At this point I've been taking 60 drops in the AM and 60 drops in the PM. Of course I'm going at this kinda cautiously.

I have to believe that the recommended dosage HAS to be lots less than the amount that anyone would need to promote breast growth. Do others agree with that.

Also the fact that they say 3x a day seems to me that it must metabolize out of your system fairly quickly ... like in about 8 hours.

So I'm thinking about going to 84 drops in the AM and 84 drops in the PM for starters. The morning one is timed pretty nicely with my TRT Gel ... it should help allot to allow free T to convert to Estradiol instead of DHT ... and the evening one will just keep DHT levels low and phytoestrogen levels elevated.

What does everyone think ... does my logic seem to be sound.

Thanks .... and hugs .... Karen

[JennyA]

Thanks for posting. I want to look into this.

[Isabelle]

Hi Karen,

The product info
http://www.naturesanswer.com/p-709-hops-...e-1oz.aspx
says it's stronger than a tincture, and that it's 1:1. I assume (but I'm not sure) that means 1 g (= 1 ml or 28 drops) of liquid contains the active ingredients of 1 g (= 1,000 mg) hops flowers (cones, strobiles), probably fresh.

I use 2,550 mg of dried hops flowers. I never dried hops myself to check the weight loss, but I assume it's about 2/3. So I assume you can use up to 2,550 mg * 3 * 1ml/1,000mg * 28drops/ml = 214 drops.

[karen]

Thanks Isabelle,

Last night I took 73 drops and yesterday morning 60 ... so I had 133 for the day.

This morning 60 again .... I'm easing into this cause I wasn't sure about the dosage NOR what to expect.

Today I had a Big Mug of Spearmint Tea .... used 3 bags in it ... about 30 minutes after I finished it I got a "splitting headache" ... keep in mind I never get headaches ... or lets say I never did until I started playing with Hormone altering herbs. Headaches, retaining water and ankles swelling .... and the past two days my boobs have been more tender than they ever have been. I'm just sitting at my desk and all of a sudden I "feel" something uncomfortable in one of them .... enough to make me wanna rub it and make it better.

Hugs ... Karen

[Isabelle]

Hi Karen,

That's good. It means you blocked 5α-reductase at least partly, and aromatase made some extra estrogens of the testosterone. You can now look for the lowest hops and spearmint dose that gives you a headache.

Once you found it, reduce testim, because the headache also means you become estrogen dominant. Or you can add a little progesterone from fennel seed tea.

[karen]

So much to learn ....

One of the things that has me most "uncertain and uncomfortable" is the whole interaction between hormone levels and what those levels will cause your body to do ....

Some Questions .....

1. Is there an estrogen level (a number ... not asking what it is, just if everyone has one) that if your estrogen (or estradiol) goes above that number then your body works on growing boobs? --- OR --- Or do you have to "stay" above that number for "x" amount of time and "then" your body works on growing boobs? --- AND --- if it is the "x" number theory, if you drop below that number then the cycle is reset and you start all over again never achieving boobs growth since you weren't above the number for enough time?

2. When you start feeling booby pain does that mean the growth has started? --- OR --- does that mean that you are "going" to start a growth cycle maybe two weeks later (or some number of days later .... short time or long time?)

I'm guessing that Estrogen Dominance can happen when you have a certain ratio amongst certain hormones in which Estrogen has the "most" or has gone over some ratio ... I'm gonna go read some more on this right now.

Thanks to everyone .... Hugs .... Karen.

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I'm back .... just found this

http://www.johnleemd.com/store/estrogen_dom.html

I didn't realize that it was a relationship between estrogen and progesterone .... I thought it was a Testosterone/estrogen ratio. So if I have this right, the hops that I was taking was "to some extent" blocking the production of DHT by "inhibiting 5 alpha-reductases" ability to cause that conversion .... leaving more Free Testosterone ... which was converted to Estradiol by Aromatase. This increase in Estradiol caused the ratio between Estradiol and Progesterone to be "out of balance" .... it had nothing to do with how much T vs E .... so by taking something that adds Progesterone I could have "kept the balance" and had no headache .....

Like one of these ... licorice tea, fennel seed tea, red clover, yucca, thyme, or oregano.

Hope I got that right

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Back with another thought/question .... I've been trying to understand what causes breast development in men ... meaning do you have to lower T levels BELOW some level before it will happen? Is it solely dependant on E Levels and once you get them over some level then breast development can happen?

Well I've read that body builders can get man boobs ... I'm sure most everyone has ... body builders that are taking large doses of Testosterone .... SO it's looking to me like the T Level really doesn't come into play (or maybe not much) BUT it's really more dependant on E Levels. I'm sure there's lots more going on here BUT ..... if one can increase Free Testosterone (which makes more T available to convert to DHT and Estradiol) AND then blocks "just enough" 5 alpha reductase to block "some amount" of DHT conversion causing Free T to become E instead of DHT ... getting you over "that E number" then you're on the right track .... I don't need to eliminate all conversion to DHT .... just enough to save enough Free T for conversion to Estradiol.

Does that make sense? Sorry if this is obvious to others ... kinda a "new dawn" to me ....

Hugs ... Karen

[Isabelle]

Hi Karen,

You got the estrogen dominance right.

Body builders take aromatase blockers to avoid breast growth.

I'm not sure what makes breasts grow. Pansy Mae mimics a female estrogen cycle with PM dose. There is an estrogen peak from day 9 to day 11. Pansy Mae experienced growing pains uphill as well as downhill.