[beverley.rose]

OK - I have often wondered about the efficacy of PM capsules. I take them and I take them and my chest does not have FFF cups yet! So I have wondered (more than once) if they are doing anything at all or are the ones I get full of flour and little else?

I know this is a slow process and I have told that to others, but even so, I do wonder if these PM capsules are doing anything at all or am I simply burning my money?

There have definitely been changes of mood and my body hair is finer, but that could be SP doing that so (disgusting bit ahead) after indulging the wife in her favourite contact sport, I had this great idea. I scooped up some of the "wrigglers" and put them on my field microscope at x200 and had a look. Lots of dead sperm. A few active ones but a lot of dead ones and not as many as before (once, some years ago I looked just out of sheer curiousity and the view under the microscope was swarming with "tadpoles").

"Blimey", I thought, the PM must be doing something but then it occurred to me that since I 'tuck' my testes up these days when wearing female jeans/trousers maybe the increased warmth is what killed them off - that is why your testicles are normally outside the body.

So I am back to square one. Suggestions anyone?

Beverley

[Isabelle]

Hi Beverley,

I know there was a big panic in the UK about xenoestrogens 15 years ago, but estrogens don't kill sperm.

It must be the jeans. Try a skirt. Or when the weather gets cold, a quilt

[bryony]

OK - I have often wondered about the efficacy of PM capsules. I take them and I take them and my chest does not have FFF cups yet! So I have wondered (more than once) if they are doing anything at all or are the ones I get full of flour and little else?

I know this is a slow process and I have told that to others, but even so, I do wonder if these PM capsules are doing anything at all or am I simply burning my money?

There have definitely been changes of mood and my body hair is finer, but that could be SP doing that so (disgusting bit ahead) after indulging the wife in her favourite contact sport, I had this great idea. I scooped up some of the "wrigglers" and put them on my field microscope at x200 and had a look. Lots of dead sperm. A few active ones but a lot of dead ones and not as many as before (once, some years ago I looked just out of sheer curiousity and the view under the microscope was swarming with "tadpoles").

"Blimey", I thought, the PM must be doing something but then it occurred to me that since I 'tuck' my testes up these days when wearing female jeans/trousers maybe the increased warmth is what killed them off - that is why your testicles are normally outside the body.

So I am back to square one. Suggestions anyone?

Beverley

The ones from Ainterol definitely do work. Before I started (3 weeks ago)
I had been an obsessive nipple tweaker (blush) for some years, and I _know_ their characteristics. They were about 10mm long and about 6mm in diameter. I more or less abused them as much as I wanted, and the more the merrier. After 3 weeks on PM, that is a no-no. They are _extremely_ tender. There seems to be a mass of about 1cm diameter behind each nipple that feels quite tender, and if I tweak my nipples in anything but a gentle way, it feels like stinging nettles. Their length seems to have diminished by a few mm (though I don't know if this is due to a lack of stretching) but the base near the aerola appears to be wider. I _hope_ this means that the diameter is increasing, but time will tell.

Lastly (not leastly) there has been a definite increase in fat deposits, noticeable to me only when I am hunched forward. The area where the "pencil test" is used with GGs actually folds over a bit, which it did not do before.

However, you do bring up an important point. How do we know how good a given supplier is? The PM guru is supposed to be Sandford Schwartz and he, although an academic, has a pecuniary interest in Smith Naturals (he is the chief executive). I'd probably be happiest getting PM from them, but haven't been able to figure out how.

Most people seem to use Ainterol, but the kidney business I have written about earlier worries me, and also the fact that the guy who sells it (wflynn) put an entry on a forum called Immortal Hair (or similar) about how he grew back his hair and regained his original colour from gray... Seems suspicious.

So, for confidence, we ought to find out how to get a good deal from Smith Naturals, I think.

Any thoughts?

[beverley.rose]

@Bryony - I think I will order the Ainterol liquid someone linked to in a recent post. It is within the EU and easy to get on next day delivery. Getting stuff from the USA seems to take a long time. My minoxidil comes from Florida and it takes weeks.

@Isabelle - I usually wear dresses but I still prefer to be 'tucked'/ Anyway from what you say it is the extra body heat that is doing the wrigglers in.

Beverley

[bryony]

@Bryony - I think I will order the Ainterol liquid someone linked to in a recent post. It is within the EU and easy to get on next day delivery. Getting stuff from the USA seems to take a long time. My minoxidil comes from Florida and it takes weeks.

@Isabelle - I usually wear dresses but I still prefer to be 'tucked'/ Anyway from what you say it is the extra body heat that is doing the wrigglers in.

Beverley

I should have said: I am in the UK, use Ainterol.us without any problems. The first time I ordered, I got one bottle because it would be below the customs limit of £18, but decided "oh hang it" on the second order and ordered two bottles. Turns out they very naughtily just put the price of one bottle on the customs declaration! Tut tut!

The delivery comes from Thailand either way - it takes about a week.

B.

[chrissie]

Bev,
You have met me; does PM work?
I only ever wear women's bras; both because they work for me and, without, boobs get a bit uncomfortbale; no, really uncomfortable. I never, ever indulge in TV artifice. I am a woman, with all the imperfections, that TS brings. In mood, I feel totally woman. Most people refer to me, as "she". The feeling, of, leaving, all malenes, behind, was an ealy & welcome effect of PM. To me it had an early and beneficial effect.
When you get to where I am, you will not worry about tucked in, just about the comfort f those knickers!

[beverley.rose]

Chrissie

You have the boobs I dream of and I would never say otherwise. I will happily admit that you are a testament to PM's effectiveness, but you have also seen me with my two pimples - how else would you describe them?

I was not disputing the efficacy of PM. Maybe the capsules work less for me than they do for you. I am not getting aches, I am not getting sensitivity, I am not getting lumps behind the nipples. I do seem to be getting other effects but I worry about the lack of boob growth.

I am staying on PM but maybe from a different supplier. I am thinking of this

http://www.ainterol.co.uk/products/Puera...l.oz).html

for € 35 = £28 so there is not a lot of difference in price but perhaps a slightly different formulation would help?

Beverley

[Pansy-Mae]

I've only just seen this thread, so I'm going to chuck in thoughts based on bits in various posts from various people.

Firstly, afaik Ainterol is Ainterol, so it makes no difference product-wise whether you order it from the US, Germany or direct from Thailand via e-bay, apart from price/shipping cost, and delivery time. I've always gone the e-bay route, its cheap and delivery to the UK is between 1 and 3 weeks, which is fine - I buy three bottles at a time and re-order as I start the third bottle, and that gives me a couple of weeks slack for any possible delays in transit ( although there haven't been any so far).

I don't know about the liquid extract for sure, although I did some approximate calcs on dose vs price and there didn't seem to be any significant advantage. You don't say if you intend to just swallow it or hold it under the tongue to absorb through the skin? Isabelle will tell you that PM needs to be processed through the liver and sub-lingual is less effective than stomach. I tried the cream version, applied on the boobs as directed, and saw no effect at all.

We've all said that we are all different, so your point about trying a different formulation has some merit, certainly no harm in giving it a go, from that perspective.

There is no way to know how good a particular product or brand is except by trying it and letting others know of our experiences, which is of course exactly what this forum is all about.

I've never heard of a 'PM guru' called anything at all, let alone Sanford Schwartz, neither have I heard of Smith Naturals, but a 'guru' who is chief exec of a supplier, and making extravagant claims, worries me and personally I would steer well clear rather than rush to get on his band wagon.

Finally, Beverley, and I do hate to say this, but of course there are some women who simply don't have the natural ability to grow breasts of any size, hence the numbers of GG's who are here trying to coax a little more growth from their bodies - just perhaps you are simply the male equivalent of Twiggy, just as Chrissie ( and Cheryl) are the male equivalents of Mae West! In which case you either resign yourself to the long haul or maybe switch to BO and try to attack the problem in completely different way?

[beverley.rose]

Firstly, afaik Ainterol is Ainterol, so it makes no difference product-wise whether you order it from the US, Germany or direct from Thailand via e-bay

Fair enough, but the point is that I am not using Ainterol's PM at present.

You don't say if you intend to just swallow it or hold it under the tongue to absorb through the skin?

I would take it as drops in water which I would then drink.

There is no way to know how good a particular product or brand is except by trying it and letting others know of our experiences, which is of course exactly what this forum is all about.

That is more to the point of where I am coming from on this. I am on capsules at the minute.

Finally, Beverley, and I do hate to say this, but of course there are some women who simply don't have the natural ability to grow breasts of any size, hence the numbers of GG's who are here trying to coax a little more growth from their bodies - just perhaps you are simply the male equivalent of Twiggy, just as Chrissie ( and Cheryl) are the male equivalents of Mae West! In which case you either resign yourself to the long haul or maybe switch to BO and try to attack the problem in completely different way?

I hope that is not the case. All my female relatives are A/B cups so I am not expecting massive boobies in any case. Even Twiggy had boobs!

Beverley

[bryony]

I've never heard of a 'PM guru' called anything at all, let alone Sanford Schwartz, neither have I heard of Smith Naturals, but a 'guru' who is chief exec of a supplier, and making extravagant claims, worries me and personally I would steer well clear rather than rush to get on his band wagon.

Hi,

Apologies - "guru" was my word...sloppy.

Generally I share your cynicism, and I didn't really explain what I meant.

I use Ainterol, mainly due to its cheapness, availablity and recommendations from this forum and Cheryl's.

I didn't want to rush into anything, and I am a natural researcher so I did a fair amount of googling.

However, information on PM is pretty sparse on the web, other than marketing stuff. E.g. I can't find out anything about Ainterol's people or the purity of the product.

On the other hand, Sandford Schwartz's name cropped up on various "alternative medicine" sites.
e.g.

goneraw.com/forum/pueraria-mirifica-fountain-youth
www.alternative-doctor.com/anti-ageing/pueraria.html


He is an American M.D., at least, and his company works with another one, Bio-Botanica which has "The World's only Patented Standardized to > 20 mg miroestrol extract of p.m.", and there is a copy of the patent available to look at on this website

www.puresterol.com

and there's a google video of a conference presentation that he gave on

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3982853702709194940

So, all in all, I reckon there is a lot more known and published about the Smith Naturals product in terms of purity and concentration, and Schwartz's is the only name of a scientist/producer that crops up on the web when you search for "Peuraria Mirifica", which is why I used the silly word "guru".

That said, I'll keep using the Ainterol, unless I come to the conclusion that it does indeed affect my kidney, in which case I will try to get hold of the SmithNat product.

WRT Schwartz being the CEO of Smith Naturals, well, Craig Venter, credited with most of the effort in decoding the Human Genome, got all his work going by getting venture capitalists to fund a company for him because the usual state funding wasn't available. I'm not saying these are comparable cases, you understand!

Hope I've clarified - I'm not trying to be a shill for anyone!

TTFN

B.