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"T" going, going...?

#31

(06-12-2011, 09:25 AM)PattiJT Wrote:  Dressing? No real change....

I used to have the notion that I looked better padded to a 38C or so, and she often asked me why I went so big. Now that I'm a solid B, and no longer padding, I guess I fit her ideas of proportions as I have not heard a word. Another thing, I used to dress a bit more sexily, and used more makeup. It seems that I've become more comfortable having become more bodily feminine, and feel better in more casual and appropriate clothing (still skirts), and am also only wearing little or no makeup. And only occasionally. I suppose that my changes in style and makeup could be interepreted as a lessening of desire, but I see it as becoming more befitting of who I've become as a result of the physical changes I've undergone, and continue to undergo. I'm arriving at a place that feels good, and I don't feel the need to be "sexy" nearly as often. Perhaps that was just me trying to appease my Psyche. Said psyche seems to have been slapped and put in it's place. It feels I'm in a spot where I'm not sure when I'm crossdressing, when I'm in male dress, or female dress. At the same time, I'm comfortable either way, as I feel appropriate for the situation, be it at home or out in public. Class D shapeshifter!

Patti,
This makes perfect sense to me..it is exactly what I've been through, even down to being happier with small real boobs than I was with the former larger fake ones!
I do think that the lessening of make up, and toned down clothes, goes with it, and that it is all a part of what we describe as reduced need to cross-dress. Although I say I have stopped cross dressing, I do still wear a bra and heels, and female jumpers and trousers when at home. Trouble is I do miss the slap and the tight skirts and stockings, and that's the bit that's gone! BlushBlush

However I think you are right, forgetting the deep analysis, I think that somehow the PM is satisfying the female side and removing the need to over-emphasise the female within by OTT external means. I've said before that I wear clothes that fit the occasion and I don't need to rub it in anyone's face, so I keep the incongruous stuff for at home.
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#32

I've discussed in past posts where I am at on the cross-dress vs. PM thoughts so I won't rehash that here. I do want to offer the suggestion that while it is tempting to look at our changes and feelings/thinking from the whole boy/girl androgen/estrogen perspective, I really feel we do ourselves an injustice when we boil it down that thinly. Those of us who have been at this for years will most definitely have a mix of things going on in their bodies and brains (physically, never mind the cumulative effects of our life experiences) which can interact a great deal with this NBE activity. It has been mentioned that PM has a dopamine effect. Who knows what else is in it on a non-trivial level and what effects or ripple effects may occur? On top of that, each of us reacts differently to these things.

Anyway, I just wanted to suggest that perhaps there is a lot more going on than can be explained by looking at such a narrow range of causes. I personally believe a significant part of our urges (e.g. cross-dressing, self-image desires, sexual satisfaction, etc.) are influenced in important ways by our psychological view of ourselves. This is also modified by the messages we get everyday from the world around us, from family to the billboards we drive past. Throw our herbal activities into the mix, and then our emotions, and I don't believe you will have much luck separating out just the PM from it all.

Having said that, I like what PM appears to do for me. I like how it makes me look, and how it makes me feel (physically and emotionally). It makes me more anxious about how my wife and family are affected by it than about how I am affected by it. Nothing is perfect. I'm not going to over-analyze this. I will continue taking it or an alternative barring unforeseen issues.
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#33

(06-12-2011, 06:45 PM)sfem Wrote:  I'm not going to over-analyze this. I will continue taking it or an alternative barring unforeseen issues.

That's cos you are a Libra. A Virgo like me specialises in over-analysis!

Tongue

B.
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#34

I've been wondering why I'm the only person on this forum, as far as I know, who gets the deep, profound calming experience that Chrissie used to talk about.

I can't dismiss what Dr Vitale says about the use of this for testing a transsexual brain.

I think what I and Chrissie have in common is our age and relative cultural point. We were both brought up in the 60's when men were men and women were women. Any man acting girly was the recipient of all kinds of names - "fairy", "poof", "pansy" (sorry, Pansy-Mae!)

Things lightened up a lot in the 70's but by then the guilt was well and truly imbued in the subconscious.

I didn't know why I was different; all you could get in those days were library books. Even the groundbreaking book by Dr David Delvin,
"All you wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask" only made me think that I was a transvestite, who for one reason or another could only be satisfied if wearing female clothing, and it was lumped in with a whole host of fetishes including bestiality.

As a result, a lot of repression happened, and I think this is the key point to the "Gender Anxiety" that Vitale referred to.

The whole of my adult married life with kids, I felt that I was somehow balancing on a knife edge. I used to throw myself into work, staying late and missing a good part of my children's most enjoyable years, so as to keep busy.

Now that I'm semi-retired, the extra time on my hands meant that I could worry about the state of the world, my kids' future, all sorts of worries.

I was really quite screwed up. PM completely unlocked all that.
I still remember when it first happened. I was actually in the shower, and it was as though I suddenly woke up. Like I was dreaming that I was awake, and then I really was awake.

All of the anxieties that I now know I had subverted from their real cause, not being a female, cascaded off me like rain off of an umbrella.

I can't explain it any better than to say: I felt like I was reborn.

(If born-again Christians have a similar experience, I can see why they get so excited.)

So, what I'm getting to, is my alternative theory:

Maybe those of you who have not had this degree of relief have obtained it in other ways, more gradually.

It sounds to me like most of you have had substantial opportunity to cross-dress. Maybe this is why chemical feminisation isn't quite such a big deal, so instead of a deep calming reaction, you just feel more contented within yourselves.

My wife, being the same age as me, desperately wanted to keep it a secret ("embarrassment", "shame", "don't let the children find out"), so, once the kids got old enough to stay up as late, if not later than us, opportunities dwindled to a figure just a little bit bigger than zero, and have been that way for the last 15 or so years.

So, not having had any release outside of the 5 minute fantasy, maybe I was just a tad more screwed up with consequently more to gain by my use of PM?

As ever, just a theory.

B.
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#35

I was also brought up in the 60's. I've never had the watershed moment you describe. It must have been quite the feeling. I've also never had that much opportunity to cross-dress and have been limited to underwear for the most part since I was a teen. In the past few years, as my kids have gotten old enough to be off living their own lives, I have found more opportunity to cross-dress, but since taking the herbs, I have not felt so motivated to do so. Confession: Other than as a child at halloween, I have never left the house wearing female clothing of any kind except under my male clothes. I don't wear female clothing other than underwear in front of my wife, and have never fully dressed (since being a child at halloween), head to foot. Not sure why, just haven't (and no shoes available in size sasquatch). I have forms left over from before herbs and a wig and a skirt suit and 2 blouses and a minidress. Haven't touched any of that since the herbs started making changes. I should toss it all but I'm a packrat. Our kids don't "know", and probably never will. I do recall posting something about that whole side of things back around when I first joined this forum. My wife would be horrified if anyone found out our little secret, and I do everything I can to respect that, although posting to this forum is the thing most likely to out me if anyone cared enough to hack it.
I would say that the biggest difference between our reactions to PM on a mental level is that we're simply different people with different responses to complex situations and stimuli. I wouldn't say you're more or less "screwed up" than any of us here in the rainbow forest. You're just another unique human. Smile
PM makes you happy. Your family makes you happy. That's awesome! Too many people go through their lives never finding something to make them happy. Celebrate! Eat some chocolate!
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#36

Bryony my little sweet pops
Read my past posts
On pm went from testosterone bull monster too sweet mild mannered cutie pie sort off in days

If that is not mental calming ? Dont know what is ???????


JulieHuh
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#37

(06-12-2011, 10:08 PM)sfem Wrote:  I was also brought up in the 60's. I've never had the watershed moment you describe. It must have been quite the feeling. I've also never had that much opportunity to cross-dress and have been limited to underwear for the most part since I was a teen. In the past few years, as my kids have gotten old enough to be off living their own lives, I have found more opportunity to cross-dress, but since taking the herbs, I have not felt so motivated to do so. Confession: Other than as a child at halloween, I have never left the house wearing female clothing of any kind except under my male clothes. I don't wear female clothing other than underwear in front of my wife, and have never fully dressed (since being a child at halloween), head to foot. Not sure why, just haven't (and no shoes available in size sasquatch). I have forms left over from before herbs and a wig and a skirt suit and 2 blouses and a minidress. Haven't touched any of that since the herbs started making changes. I should toss it all but I'm a packrat. Our kids don't "know", and probably never will. I do recall posting something about that whole side of things back around when I first joined this forum. My wife would be horrified if anyone found out our little secret, and I do everything I can to respect that, although posting to this forum is the thing most likely to out me if anyone cared enough to hack it.
I would say that the biggest difference between our reactions to PM on a mental level is that we're simply different people with different responses to complex situations and stimuli. I wouldn't say you're more or less "screwed up" than any of us here in the rainbow forest. You're just another unique human. Smile
PM makes you happy. Your family makes you happy. That's awesome! Too many people go through their lives never finding something to make them happy. Celebrate! Eat some chocolate!

Ha ha! OK, bang goes that theory! We do seem to have had similar situations, though I still maintain you had marginally more "release" than me, but as the PM is starting to kick in, I'm not going to quibble! Smile

Celebrations later in the week when the PM kicks in to the max!

B.
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#38

(06-12-2011, 10:19 PM)julieTG Wrote:  Bryony my little sweet pops
Read my past posts
On pm went from testosterone bull monster too sweet mild mannered cutie pie sort off in days

If that is not mental calming ? Dont know what is ???????


JulieHuh

Oops! Did I get it wrong? I thought when you said "Exactly So what do we do ?" in post #26 above, you were echoing what Pansy-Mae said, including the not-noticeable calming effect.

Sorry about that! Misunderstood!

So that's two of us that need it for the mental balance now then. Smile

Any more?

B.
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#39

Holy!!

Right about now I'm beginning to feel a bit freaky. Meaning, I have a closet full of nice girly things, with a 4 drawer chest of un-mentionables, and my summer clothes are all nicely stashed in the attic! Where does that put me? Don't think I can blame all that on being a Scorpio. Nor just being a pack-rat. Before you say "Isabelle was right, you're a TS," I have to admit, that while I get (got) carried away, I am a bit infatuated with nice clothes, but mainly, I just can't pass up a good price. A bit of collectors blood, also. I mean, for example, with shops selling stockings upwards of $9-$10 a pair, if I find some (that fit) for 50cents, I will grab 10 pairs. My reasoning is that I will have them later when they're harder to find, or something like that.

I'm a little embarrassed to admit all that, but it's me, and I hope you don't feel that since my notion of "dressing" is a bit different than some of yours', that I can't relate to your experiences. We still have the same ideas and feelings about a large variety of things, I've just gone a bit overboard on the clothing. I, too grew up in the 50s/60s. Poodle skirts, petticoats, pointy bras, garter belts and stockings, etc. Don't dress like that, but will NOT give up the stockings and garters. While I don't do 'sexy' much anymore, stockings are my exception to the rule.

Different strokes for different folks!

Take care, it's getting cold out there. Well, it is here, at least. Patti
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#40

This is really a fascinating discussion. Far from the being the group of "men who want boobs" as it was described in Beverley's parting message, I find it a group of, almost without exception, TSs with partners who recognise that they have a deep, deep need to express their femininity (or, strictly, lack of foetal masculinity), but still want to love their wives/partners in the same old way.

I'm just amazed that this wonderful herb exists. I'm not aware of any discussion amongst orthodox professionals of this alternative option, ie dealing with intense emotional distress caused by gender dysphoria by means of herbal remedies and coping with breast growth.

It seems that society is so locked into the gender dimorphism stereotype, that even transsexuals, by and large, feel that they have to conform, hence the massive medical/pharmaceutical industry that's grown up around it.

Here in the UK where we have the National Health Service, there is a government committee called (ironically) NICE that decides whether particular drugs and operations represent sufficient value for money to be made available under the scheme. (Most people cannot afford private medical insurance).

This committee is allowing people to die or develop Alzheimers earlier than necessary, because the extra time gained isn't sufficient to warrant the extra thousands of £s required to pay for the medicines.

Gender Reassignment Surgery is available. This puts it at an importance level greater than extending lives on a cost/benefit analysis.
BUT and it's a big but, Facial Feminisation Surgery is NOT available, as it is deemed "Cosmetic".

The answer is always to fit in the gender stereotype box, though not, it seems, to make the face convincing. I wonder how many people with very mannish faces have transitioned and lived in misery because of it?
I wonder what kind of followup studies have compared the experiences of these people with the lucky few who have been able to afford FFS privately?

It seems to me that there are a whole lot of options that have not been explored here. I've written before about orthodoxies. I also think momentum and intertia have a lot to do with it.

I would be interested to know how successful my proposed program would be:

1) Treat the underlying anxiety immediately with PM; don't force the patient to start dressing and living as a female before treatment; (if they want to, that's different. Of course, such an investment in expensive synthetic hormones requires a courageous act of commitment!)

2)If they are functional, with a partner, vary the dosage as required to maintain functionality periodically (although if my experiments with Maca, and Butea Superba, when it arrives, are successful, this may not be necessary)

3) If / when breast growth makes them uncomfortable presenting as a man, offer them FFS so that they could then present with confidence as females, whilst maintaining FF as required.

4) Only as a last resort, with lots of counselling with both partners, consider GRS.

I know that if I was a young man again, I would sign up to a program like that in a flash.

Given the enormous cost of surgery to perform GRS vs FFS, and the cheapness of the herbal solution, it would, if I were less cynical, seem astonishing to me that this isn't already available.

Perhaps it's time for "change". As long as transsexuals allow society to say "there are only two boxes" there will be a large group of people who, unless they are lucky enough to discover this board, are condemned either to the misery of remaining as they are, or swept into the GRS sausage machine.

It's time for people who want to be female with fully functioning equipment to become activist, I think. Maybe when the times comes that my kids find out about me, I will try to start something.

Of course, such an activist group needs a catchy name, one that the media would immediately latch on to.

I think it is time to either think of a new name or reclaim the name "Shemale".

Wikipedia says "Shemale (also she-male) is a term used in sex work to describe trans women with male genitalia and augmented female breasts from breast augmentation and/or use of hormones"

Note "a term used in sex work". Well I think I have also seen the term "female" and "male" used in sex work, along with "man", "woman" and "Transsexual".

Why is it such a big deal to refer to ourselves in this way? "Transgender" doesn't work, because it applies to so many different categories. "Third Gender" isn't too catchy... "3G" might work, though it could be confused with a mobile phone activist group Big Grin

I think a shemale activist group demanding medical treatment to allow them to carry on with their sexual relationships with their partners would firstly mean a large saving to the NHS on extraordinarily complex and dangerous operations, and huge psychological benefits for the partners involved.

Apologies for the length of this post, but it's been bubbling around in my mind for a while now! All those poor screwed up people like me could be helped so easily...

B.


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