[Pansy-Mae]

Cannot follow the logic there?

Microgest is synthesised from yams, ie natural,

Pm at standardised extracts are also produced in the lab , wholecroots not ?

Julie

You just said it yourself... microgest is SYNTHESISED, it isn't a natural extract.

PM is merely standardised, it is not manufactured from something else.

[julieTG]

Perhaps processed should be more accurate then
Standardisation of herbs is an almost identical process,

Julie

[bryony]

Bryony
For once your wrong

Pm is also produced in a lab , ie a standardised extract, Unless you go for whole root, then you have quality or compliance guarantee.

Microgest is similar it is condensed down in a similar way then encapsulated too and at a pharmaceutical standard.

Julie

Not totally true Julie because you are leaving out the fact that the progesterone has to be physically manufactured in a lab, before it can be micronised and encapsulated. As Bryony says, there is no plant source of progesterone itself.

However, there is an an argument both ways about taking it and in the end it comes down to personal views.
Aspirin, Ibuprofen and countless other drugs are produced in a lab by adding A to B then removing C to to produce D.
In principle that is no different to extracting Diosgenin from WY and treating it to produce progesterone.
Aspirin for all of its undoubted benefits in curing aches and pains and thinning the blood for heart patients also causes stomach haemorages. Nature identical Progesterone is used medically to help post-menopausal women, for many years as a topical cream, and more recently in micronised form.

OK it hasn't been around as long as PM or even aspirin, but taken in moderation it appears to be 'safe'. That cannot be said for Progestins, which do have medically acknowledged and documented negative side effects, so there is a clear difference between Progesterone and Progestins.

To go back to my very simplistic previous example.. you can get salt from countless 'natural' sources... mines, where it is contaminated by whatever in the ground... the sea where it is contaminated by things I don't want to even contemplate... or you can make it in the lab easily enough from very simple ingredients ( come to that, many years ago I had to actually make aspirin as part of my A Level Chemistry practical exam, that isn't difficult either). Whatever the source it needs to be cleaned and purified, but aside from that, the lab manufactured version of salt is identical in every respect to the natural stuff.

So as I said, it comes down to personal choice but at the mo, as far as I know there is no valid argument for not taking it in moderation and within advised limits, if an individual feels like it.

Hi,

absolutely agree, it is a personal view. I'm just risk averse. In relative terms, herbs have been around a long time, eaten by both sexes, including the phytoestrogens in PM. No apparent problems

Progesterone availability for males to ingest has been a relatively much shorter period. It seems safe, we hope it's safe, but are there any long-term studies of TSs taking "natural" progesterone?

You pays your money and you takes your choice. I've got a big yellow streak!

B.

[bryony]

Perhaps processed should be more accurate then
Standardisation of herbs is an almost identical process,

Julie

Let me try again. PM is refined from a root, but the powder isn't changed, chemically. If you dissolved a kilo of pure sugar in a litre of water to get a standardised solution it would still be sugar in water.

If you heated the water until the sugar caramelised into toffee, then it would no longer be sugar in water - a chemical change.

Wild Yam has no progesterone in it. It contains molecules of complex chemicals which can be combined in such a way as to form molecules of progesterone indentical to that found in humans.

This process, of forming a drug from precursors is called synthesis.

Now we have two words with ambiguous meanings. "Natural" meaning "of Nature". "Synthetic" meaning created artificially from building blocks.

Progestin is totally synthetic, if you like. It is synthesised, and is not found in "nature". Progesterone is found in "nature", but only in animals, and the drug that is purchased is still synthesised.

It's a fine point, but if you are talking about "herbal breast enlargement", progesterone should not play a part.

Another point to ponder. The Estrogen-mimic found in PM is not found in the human body - yet we know it is safe, arguably safer than taking estrogens that are found in the body.

We know that Progestin is not found in the body, is a mimic, rather like miroestrol and deoxymiroestrol are mimic, yet we know it is unsafe.

So the fact that something is a true copy of a hormone that appears in the human body is no guarantee that it is going to be harmless.

NEWSFLASH
=========

It appears that scientists have finally found naturally occurring progesterone in some plants, including walnuts, would you believe?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...144815.htm

B.

[JMT]

Here I was thinking I might be able to eat a bunch of walnuts (which I enjoy), but the article says it's in the leaves. Grrr.

It'll probably be years before the studies are even completed to determine if it's feasible to harvest and process the leaves. That would be a pretty nice alternative.

[Pansy-Mae]

The Nipples were like bullets all the way to falling asleep time and like bullets when woke up,

I know you have a 'thing' about big nipples...these do nothing for me but they might for you...( about halfway down the page)

http://manboobs.co.uk/submissions/latest?page=47

[julieTG]

Lol yes
Looks like were not the only ones then ?

It's the aerola I after as well, big and dark hopefully

It's strange though that nothing has happened now since the first few days of nipple alertness, but did read somewhere that aerola darkened once progesterone stops ???

Sure bryon will provide an essay to go along with this soon or issabelle expert view ?

Here's hoping

But by gosh it lifts the libido , been walking round with 3 legs this week



Julie

[Isabelle]

Hi Julie,

I have no idea. You must be taking a lot for the effects you describe. So don't change it around too quickly. It may take three weeks for the other hormone levels to adjust to the progesterone increase.

[julieTG]

Hi
Only taking 100mg capsule per day


Julie

[Isabelle]

All you never wanted to know is here:
http://www.tgboards.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1622

Your dose is right. It darkens areolas. It may increase libido and the need to cuddle someone.

But the people in this thread who consulted a doctor on it, were discouraged. Also, the advice on cycling varies. I wouldn't use it, with so much half-contradicting information.