[SarahSchilling]

are you just a scamer trying to sell your product

And what product would that be? What have I offered for sale?

I'm tempted to call you names. Instead I will just roll my eyes.

LOL

I'm not really sure why someone would think that...don't stress it.

[xxd]

xxd, you said that in combination with DHEA, it works better? Does fish oil have DHEA, or help with production of DHEA?? And do you know anything about the combination of maca with it? Thanks, it is really awesome that you understand how this all works!

Hi bod, I'm not sure if it will work better. I think it will because of the chart I made but I'm not 100% sure.

Maca I know nothing about and a quick google suggests that it works independently of the steroidal hormone system. It seems to boost E in women and T in men. So I don't know, it might help.

[xxd]

I guess I'll chime in here,

I read on another forum a woman who had taken PM with Grapeseed extract to increase estroil while decreasing the estradoil.

I guess for most women, when diagnosed with estrogen dominance, its most often estradiol that causes the bloating, weight gain, flashes etc. So taking these two together gave her healthy estrogen balance while effectively decreasing the dangerous, cancerous estradoil levels.

Estriol is the weakest estrogen and Estradiol is the strongest and most feminizing estrogen. While it's true that in women, higher does of Estradiol strongly acts on breast cancer cells, I'm not sure the same effect is seen in men. In any event, men who want to feminize want the Estradiol since it's the most feminizing estrogen.

I honestly can't say anything about Grapeseed oil from the point of view of feminization but if it converts Estradiol to Estriol then yes it ought to limit the growth of breast cancer cells in women all else being equal.

[xxd]

Wow.

I just did some reading on the two phytoestrogens in pm. They act exactly like Estradiol Valerate but are a quarter as potent. That means if you take this you are giving yourself a sex change in a pretty serious way.
Wow.

[EricaB]

I hope the dosage equivalence is more than just simple math. Most of the estradiol pills I've noticed are 2mg, then 25% of 500mg PM is equivalent to 125mg estradiol. And that's only one pill. Some here take 2,000 mg or 3,000 mg of PM. So is 25% of 2,000mg PM equivalent to 500mg estradiol. With a dose that strong one might expect to grow breasts overnight (just kidding).

All kidding aside, is there any significant difference between "estradiol" and "estradiol valerate"?

[xxd]

I hope the dosage equivalence is more than just simple math. Most of the estradiol pills I've noticed are 2mg, then 25% of 500mg PM is equivalent to 125mg estradiol. And that's only one pill. Some here take 2,000 mg or 3,000 mg of PM. So is 25% of 2,000mg PM equivalent to 500mg estradiol. With a dose that strong one might expect to grow breasts overnight (just kidding).

All kidding aside, is there any significant difference between "estradiol" and "estradiol valerate"?

No it's more like 4mg of PM active ingredient (deoxymiroestrol) is equivalent to 1mg of Estradiol. I don't know exactly what dose of PM however, contains what does of deoxymiroestrol so I can't really say.

As for estradiol vs estradiol valerate: estradiol is the most powerful estrogen in the body. Estradiol valerate is an artificial chemical version of estradiol which the body can absorb and convert to estradiol.

But yes, basically I think PM is the real deal.

[EricaB]

One of the frustrating things about herbals is the near impossibility of getting a straight answer from sellers. I can imagine asking, and have asked, sellers a simple question "how much do I take?" and gotten answers such as "Take 2 pills a day at each meal." Does that mean take a total of 2 pills a day and be sure to eat some food while taking a pill, or does that mean take 2 pills with each of 3 meals for a total of 6 pills a day? Arggh. LOL

[luk]

are you just a scamer trying to sell your product

And what product would that be? What have I offered for sale?

I'm tempted to call you names. Instead I will just roll my eyes.

my bad i just been seening a few "spamers/scamers" on other forums
good to see that we have a smart witty person on here and with that i say welcome

[chrishoney]

As for estradiol vs estradiol valerate: estradiol is the most powerful estrogen in the body. Estradiol valerate is an artificial chemical version of estradiol which the body can absorb and convert to estradiol.

Just for clarification, manufacturers need to modify estradiol ever so slightly to get it to be more soluble in the oil used for intramuscular injection (typically peanut or soy oil). The oil is relatively insoluble in the interstitial fluid of the tissue into which it is injected and thus creates a kind of slow release "depot" so that all of the estradiol isn't absorbed into your system right after the injection. The 'valereate' part is the side chain that makes the estradiol more soluble in oil. An injection typically takes about a week to be fully absorbed.

For all intents and purposes, estradiol and estradiol valereate are considered to be identical in terms of their estrogenic action in the body.

[xxd]

I hope the dosage equivalence is more than just simple math. Most of the estradiol pills I've noticed are 2mg, then 25% of 500mg PM is equivalent to 125mg estradiol. And that's only one pill. Some here take 2,000 mg or 3,000 mg of PM. So is 25% of 2,000mg PM equivalent to 500mg estradiol. With a dose that strong one might expect to grow breasts overnight (just kidding).

All kidding aside, is there any significant difference between "estradiol" and "estradiol valerate"?

I think I read that 500mg of PM has the equivalent of 1mg of deoxymiroestrol which is the seriously strong phytoestrogen in PM.
So I make that to be about .2-.25 mg of estradiol in each 500mg tablet.
Note however, that the binding effects of deoxymiroestrol to the estrogen receptors seem to be about twice as strong as those of estradiol so it may be twice as feminizing as estradiol. From that perspective 2000mg-2500mg is between half a sex change dose of estradiol to a full sex change dose (equivalent to 2mg of estradiol valerate).

I'm reluctant to take a lot of it myself as my sister has huge boobies like a d cup and I don't want to burst out, just really would like bigger nipples and small buds so I'm doing no more than 1000mg a day till the bottle is finished (120 tablets of 500 mg each) then I'll probably leave it at that.