[Holmes12]

Hello there,

I have been trying to develop my breast for about 3 months now, have been reading advice pages, I think I've made some progress, mainly by using natureday liquid, soap and cream. I always have to wait an age for my new supply to arrive here in the UK, so have tried seeking and alternative.

Has anyone tried using Soy Isoflavones and flax seed oil, with Saw palmetto to keep the T down, also recently got some PM cream called Estrofirm which seems to work quite well, or at least feels like it.

Has anyone here tried the Soy approach, does it work, or is that all just a myth?

Here are my before and now pics:

[flamesabers]

Hello Holmes.

Welcome to the board.

Unfortunately, I don't have any firsthand experience with most of the products you mentioned. I have used Saw Palmetto in the past, but no longer. I only use pm in its capsule form, not as a cream.

I'm sure there are others on the board who can answer your questions.

[AbiDrew85]

Heya Holmes. Mixing phytoestrogens is generally a bad idea. They generally compete for the same receptors and some might have a weaker effect than others.

I tried soy and it didn't do much of anything for me. Some slight puffiness and tenderness and an increase in overall sensitivity was all it got me. Even at incredibly high dosage.

I'm not saying it's not possible, because everyone's different, but that's my reaction.

Your images no longer work btw?

[Pansy-Mae]

Hi Holmes and welcome.
First of all, clearly something is happening, so well done on that, keep up the good work.

I can't help directly with the products you mention, but if you find Isabelle's huge thread called " Long time hops and FG user" there is loads of info about hop, soy and all the other common herbs.

[Holmes12]

Hopefully that has sorted things out a bit re the pics.

I'm not sure about this mixing pytoestrogens being bad, most of the creams you can buy appear to be a mix of herbs, so it can't be too bad, can it?

[AbiDrew85]

Hopefully that has sorted things out a bit re the pics.

Well, It does look like you're getting results. Sweet!

I'm glad they seem to work for you. They did absolutely nothing for me.

Re the mixing. Most of the big brands in this business don't actually know what they're doing. They're just profiteering. You'll find that many of the more experienced people on this board started using those mixed products and later graduated to developing their own mixes using a combination of generally just ONE maybe two estrogenic sources, ONE maybe two anti-androgens, and ONE maybe two progesterone sources.

Also. Estrogens and Anti-androgens, while they doooo seem to work topically, have less bang for the buck than when used internally. Progesterone is the opposite, and absorbs very readily through the skin, while far too much gets picked up and thrown out in the liver used internally.

That's part of why some people experience more success combining topicals and internals. The topicals, more progesterone gets through, the internals, more estrogens and anti-androgens get through.

[Holmes12]

That is interesting, I do seem to have reach a plateau with the nature day formula, although they do advise giving the product 6 months to kick in the real results, maybe I'm being to impatient.

I do feel that this one week on the PM topical application, has had a really good effect, with quick development, but PM does not seem cheap, especially compared to the natureday cream. The estrofirm is a 20 mg tube for £8.99 which last only 4 - 5 days, compared to a 114 g tub of cream @ £30, that lasts a good 3 weeks. The cost of PM at present make it less desirable, especially when you need to factor in the delivery charges.

I wander how one would make their own topical?

One last question, something that has been bugging me, is exercise (mainly CV based) good or bad for breast development? I've read conflicting stories about this.

[AbiDrew85]

That depends... Technically. No. Real breast development will be permanent and is entirely determined by balanced high progesterone and estrogen.

In the short term, however, it can cause an APPARENT reduction in size and volume because you could burn the fat away.

This is entirely dependant on the person though. Some people on female hormones become what is called "apple" shaped. This means you're top heavy. You don't burn fat from your breasts and upper body as quickly or easily as your lower body.

Others become pear shaped and grow more fatty in the bum and hips and thighs and have a more difficult time burning that.

Still others are perfectly balanced and become either "banana" aka bean poles, or curvaceous sexy little hourglasses.

All of this contributes to why you'll see conflicting thoughts on cardio while on NBE. For some, high cardio keeps their waist and thighs lean without effecting their boobs. For others, it keeps their boobs from retaining fat while their bum inflates. For yet others they don't even notice a difference at all..... it's so individual that there's really no way I can tell you how it'd affect your personal case.

I do, however, not recommend avoiding cardio just because you don't want to risk losing boob. No matter what, you WILL retain any DEVELOPMENT. All you'd lose would be fat.

[Holmes12]

Thankyou that was very informative.

I think I may be in the latter category as since I started the natureday products I have lost a little over two stone. My beer belly has all but gone and there has been no re-deposit of fat in any other areas of my body. Yet the breast have continued, to slowly develop.

One thing I have noticed is this description of golf balls under the nipple, this is not something that I have experienced. Although when I massage I can feel what feels like nodes under the skin. Is the golf ball effect another thing that differs between people?

[AbiDrew85]

One thing I have noticed is this description of golf balls under the nipple, this is not something that I have experienced. Although when I massage I can feel what feels like nodes under the skin. Is the golf ball effect another thing that differs between people?

Pretty much, yep.

What you feel is actually the same effect, just smaller. What differs here isn't so much the effect itself, but the size of it.

Generally... this is kinda an indication of how many nodes you already had built up just waiting to be woke up by the right hormones. Some people have more than others.

That you didn't have golf ball sized nodes under the nipple only means you didn't have as much built up before hand. This could indicate that you might want to add progesterone though. Maybe. But be careful with that. Without proper testing, you could seriously harm yourself if you OD on progesterone. You could even cause your boobs to shrink as excess progesterone shuts off your estrogen receptors.