[Opalescent]

Hello, I'm new to this forum (this being my 1st post) and these sorts of forums in general. I was easily overwhelmed by the shear mass of information on this site that I got easily confused and I think overloaded myself for awhile. I grew envious of all the amazing results in the picture gallery of all the the progress gained through NBE and sometimes the Noogleberry, especially that of Cherly, though I don't think I would go that far. ^^;;

well a little about me, I'm 20 years of age, genetic Male I'm mixed Korean/white(possibly German) and I eventually would like to completely transition MTF but for now I want to sort of 'prepare' for it, and I've wanted breasts for awhile now. I've just always loved the softness and apearance of them, also I just really don't like body hair, so if it helps remove that, even slightly that's a plus. I'm also currently uninsured and unemployed (but hoping to be employed fairly soon) I do want to have children someday, but if this makes me sterile I'll accept that and possibly adopt.

My Questions are:
♦ Are there any affordable Insurance provider that would cover NBE, blood work, or SRS?
♦ How much would blood work cost roughly? (insured or uninsured)
♦ What would be the best herbal plan for someone who would like to develop slowly and steadily and what is the average cost?(I'm willing to be patient, not in any hurry)
♦ Will it kill my metabolism, and if so what sort of diet should I follow?(food to stick to/stay away from)
♦ I remember reading about a food that would work as extra proestrogen or an proestrogen blocker, a food that balances Estrogen levels, anyone have any answers on that?
♦ Is Transfemme (Estradiol) a product to trust?
♦ I've seen references to breast massage techniques but never a guide on how to do it, is there any avaliable?
♦ If I decide to use a breast pump will it also stretch out my Areola?
♦ Any advice for someone just starting?

My Current measurements are; 5'11"height, 155 lbs. 32" chest 34" bust and 33" ribs.

Thank you.

[flamesabers]

Hello Opalescent .

Welcome to the board.

I do want to have children someday, but if this makes me sterile I'll accept that and possibly adopt.

I think something else to consider in addition to sterility is a loss in sex drive. I've been taking pm for about five months and I've had a significant decrease in my sex drive. I'm not bothered by this, but it could be a problem for you if having a sex life is important.

Are there any affordable Insurance provider that would cover NBE, blood work, or SRS?

I'm only well-versed with the insurance carrier provided by my employer. However, I think a good guideline to follow is insurance providers are probably not likely to pay for healthcare that isn't considered to be medically necessary. For example, my insurance provider doesn't cover electrolysis. If you do find an insurance provider that will pay for your gender-related healthcare, you'll probably have to see a gender therapist first.

What would be the best herbal plan for someone who would like to develop slowly and steadily and what is the average cost?(I'm willing to be patient, not in any hurry)

You're probably going to have to do some self-experimentation to find your own best herbal plan. I get pm in the capsule form from ainterolherbs.com. I also buy PABA, progesterone cream and calcium supplements. Average cost for NBE can range from $25-$50 a month. You may have to spend more than that initially to find out what herbs work best for you.

Will it kill my metabolism, and if so what sort of diet should I follow?(food to stick to/stay away from)

I haven't heard about this happening to anyone. If anything I would expect your metabolism to increase as it begins the process of fat distribution and developing breast tissue. I haven't made any changes to my diet since starting NBE and I don't think that has impaired my progress.

I remember reading about a food that would work as extra proestrogen or an proestrogen blocker, a food that balances Estrogen levels, anyone have any answers on that?

No, I haven't heard anything about foods that balance estrogen levels.

Is Transfemme (Estradiol) a product to trust?

I haven't used it before so I can't say. I think there are members here who have experience with it.

I've seen references to breast massage techniques but never a guide on how to do it, is there any avaliable?

One guide is the flat2fem book which explains how to massage your breasts using a circular motion.

If I decide to use a breast pump will it also stretch out my Areola?

I have some limited use with a noogleberry, but it's hard to say how much of an effect it has had on my areolas. I think once your breasts start to bud, your areolas should start to enlarge.

Any advice for someone just starting?

Be patient with your progress. To avoid needless disappointment and frustration, it's best to remember NBE will take years to fully achieve, not weeks or months. Even when you have a regime that works, you can't speed up your body's process of growing breasts.

Don't be afraid to self-experiment or tinker with your NBE regime if your growth has stalled or you're experiencing unpleasant side-effects from the herbs. Nobody will be able to tell you exactly what you should or shouldn't take to obtain optimal growth as everybody is different.

Get second opinions of your progress every month or so by posting your pictures on this forum. When you see your breasts everyday, it's very easy to overlook any changes or growth with your breasts.

[Opalescent]

Hello Opalescent .

Welcome to the board.

I do want to have children someday, but if this makes me sterile I'll accept that and possibly adopt.

I think something else to consider in addition to sterility is a loss in sex drive. I've been taking pm for about five months and I've had a significant decrease in my sex drive. I'm not bothered by this, but it could be a problem for you if having a sex life is important.

Are there any affordable Insurance provider that would cover NBE, blood work, or SRS?

I'm only well-versed with the insurance carrier provided by my employer. However, I think a good guideline to follow is insurance providers are probably not likely to pay for healthcare that isn't considered to be medically necessary. For example, my insurance provider doesn't cover electrolysis. If you do find an insurance provider that will pay for your gender-related healthcare, you'll probably have to see a gender therapist first.

What would be the best herbal plan for someone who would like to develop slowly and steadily and what is the average cost?(I'm willing to be patient, not in any hurry)

You're probably going to have to do some self-experimentation to find your own best herbal plan. I get pm in the capsule form from ainterolherbs.com. I also buy PABA, progesterone cream and calcium supplements. Average cost for NBE can range from $25-$50 a month. You may have to spend more than that initially to find out what herbs work best for you.

Will it kill my metabolism, and if so what sort of diet should I follow?(food to stick to/stay away from)

I haven't heard about this happening to anyone. If anything I would expect your metabolism to increase as it begins the process of fat distribution and developing breast tissue. I haven't made any changes to my diet since starting NBE and I don't think that has impaired my progress.

I remember reading about a food that would work as extra proestrogen or an proestrogen blocker, a food that balances Estrogen levels, anyone have any answers on that?

No, I haven't heard anything about foods that balance estrogen levels.

Is Transfemme (Estradiol) a product to trust?

I haven't used it before so I can't say. I think there are members here who have experience with it.

I've seen references to breast massage techniques but never a guide on how to do it, is there any avaliable?

One guide is the flat2fem book which explains how to massage your breasts using a circular motion.

If I decide to use a breast pump will it also stretch out my Areola?

I have some limited use with a noogleberry, but it's hard to say how much of an effect it has had on my areolas. I think once your breasts start to bud, your areolas should start to enlarge.

Any advice for someone just starting?

Be patient with your progress. To avoid needless disappointment and frustration, it's best to remember NBE will take years to fully achieve, not weeks or months. Even when you have a regime that works, you can't speed up your body's process of growing breasts.

Don't be afraid to self-experiment or tinker with your NBE regime if your growth has stalled or you're experiencing unpleasant side-effects from the herbs. Nobody will be able to tell you exactly what you should or shouldn't take to obtain optimal growth as everybody is different.

Get second opinions of your progress every month or so by posting your pictures on this forum. When you see your breasts everyday, it's very easy to overlook any changes or growth with your breasts.

I'm not quite sure how to take parts of a quote, so sorry if I'm just adding a whole mass of text to this ^^;; but anyways, Thank you for replying and thank you for all the really good answers <3
I don't think sexdrive will be too much of a problem. as for a self-experimentation, what do you think would be a good baseline to start with? I've heard a lot of people taking PM but that it is also really strong. compared to other herbs, maybe something lighter that's a bit easier to introduce? I've thought about breast creams as well but I haven't been able to find anything like that at my local pharmacies (though that just might be because I only browsed the isles cause I was too nervous to ask at the counter).
lastly does the flat2fem cost anything, and do you happen to have a link to the site?

[AbiDrew85]

From their own website, Transfemme is just Bountiful Breast rebranded and marketed directly towards the trans community.

Bountiful Breast is essentially a Bovine Ovary product plus some... Yes, it should have an effect, but really only later in the process after you've already "awakened" your estrogen receptors by killing T and using phyto-estrogens.

Personally, I would suggest getting your BO from somewhere else if you want to use it. Swanson Vitamins is where I get like 90% of my supplements and they added a pure BO-only product a while ago under glandulars.

The theory behind glandular therapy is that by eating raw glandulars from other animals, you'll stimulate your own bodies glands to "heal" themselves. There has been no real science to back this up, but testimonials and experiences seem to indicate it could be so.

[flamesabers]

as for a self-experimentation, what do you think would be a good baseline to start with? I've heard a lot of people taking PM but that it is also really strong. compared to other herbs, maybe something lighter that's a bit easier to introduce?

It depends on what herbs you use as to what a good baseline would be. If you do decide on pm, you could start on a low dose and gradually increasing your dose over time to give your body time to acclimate to the higher doses.

There's a variety of weaker herbs to try. I've used fenugreek, red clover and saw palmetto prior to using pm. I gave up on those herbs because I didn't think I was making much if any progress.

I've thought about breast creams as well but I haven't been able to find anything like that at my local pharmacies (though that just might be because I only browsed the isles cause I was too nervous to ask at the counter).

I've only seen breast creams being sold online. Even if you did buy them, it is questionable how effective they are. The research isn't concentrate but it suggests the possibility pm is most effective when it's metabolized. The way I see it, genetic females develop breasts because of the hormonal levels in their bloodstream as opposed to using breast creams. I think it's plausible to assume the same applies for genetic males.

lastly does the flat2fem cost anything, and do you happen to have a link to the site?

The book does, if I recall correctly. Here's a link to the site. There is also some free information on the site. I remember finding a video that showed how to do the breast rotations. I can't remember if it was on youtube or the flat2fem site.

http://flat2fem.com/sqpage-var1/

[Opalescent]

Personally, I would suggest getting your BO from somewhere else if you want to use it. Swanson Vitamins is where I get like 90% of my supplements and they added a pure BO-only product a while ago under glandulars.

TY for the explanation and advice, but I'm just confused on, I read that Transfemme has something that causes Aromanization of Testosterone into estrogen, is that because of the BO in the product?

[Opalescent]

It depends on what herbs you use as to what a good baseline would be. If you do decide on pm, you could start on a low dose and gradually increasing your dose over time to give your body time to acclimate to the higher doses.

There's a variety of weaker herbs to try. I've used fenugreek, red clover and saw palmetto prior to using pm. I gave up on those herbs because I didn't think I was making much if any progress.

well I'll give them a shot since I've read up on some good things coming from fenugreek, and I read somewhere on here that you can easily brew it, with the other herbs, into a tea.

I've only seen breast creams being sold online. Even if you did buy them, it is questionable how effective they are. The research isn't concentrate but it suggests the possibility pm is most effective when it's metabolized. The way I see it, genetic females develop breasts because of the hormonal levels in their bloodstream as opposed to using breast creams. I think it's plausible to assume the same applies for genetic males.

That makes sense, but isn't there a micro proestrogen cream or something of that nature that saturates through your skin? and what about estrogen pads?

The book does, if I recall correctly. Here's a link to the site. There is also some free information on the site. I remember finding a video that showed how to do the breast rotations. I can't remember if it was on youtube or the flat2fem site.

http://flat2fem.com/sqpage-var1/

Thank you for the link, I haven't found the video on the site yet, so I might try youtube, but it does seem like a really helpful book. I really appreciate all the help, I hope I can come back to this thread if I have more questions, or if someone wants to expand on any of the current questions.

[AbiDrew85]

There's a variety of weaker herbs to try. I've used fenugreek, red clover and saw palmetto prior to using pm. I gave up on those herbs because I didn't think I was making much if any progress.

Saw palmetto actually only contains a very minuscule amount of very weak phytoestrogens. It's primary effect is on 5-alpha-reductase, preventing testosterone from becoming dihydrotestosterone. The latter being a much stronger and more masculinizing form of testosterone.

I'm actually going to be trying combining SP to block DHT, Chinese Skullcap to block Testosterone (It inhibits the 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase pathway), PM to boost my estrogen, and USP progesterone creams, along with BO and various other mostly unrelated products that are intended to support my system even as I'm breaking things.

I'll be putting up more detail on my plan later in the Personal Plans forum.

I've done incredibly vast amounts of personal research into what I call herbal hormone manipulation. It's a further extension of the herbal part of NBE into essentially using herbs to simulate MtF HRT. It's not really HRT though, because I'm manipulating the bodies hormones rather than introducing outside hormones. Though I will be doing some of that too. In the past I used a pure HHM approach, but the results weren't favorable. USP Progesterone Cream and PM are introducing actual hormones into the mix.

The chemical makeup of the primary active phytochemical in PM is actually almost exactly identical to estradiol, which is why it's so much more dangerous than other, weaker, phytoestrogens. When you use PM, you're more or less dosing yourself with oral estradiol valerate. Because of this, I'm going to be trying something when I start taking it that I don't think anyone else has - putting it under my tongue just like you do estradiol pills.

[Opalescent]

I'll be putting up more detail on my plan later in the Personal Plans forum.

I hope you'd be willing to post a link to it once you start. or have finished creating it.

I've done incredibly vast amounts of personal research into what I call herbal hormone manipulation. It's a further extension of the herbal part of NBE into essentially using herbs to simulate MtF HRT. It's not really HRT though, because I'm manipulating the bodies hormones rather than introducing outside hormones. Though I will be doing some of that too. In the past I used a pure HHM approach, but the results weren't favorable. USP Progesterone Cream and PM are introducing actual hormones into the mix.

I'm a bit lost, what is the pure HHM approach? all the other stuff makes sense to me, but I'm also curious what sort of herbs you used to reach such an effect, and is it dangerous to stop?

The chemical makeup of the primary active phytochemical in PM is actually almost exactly identical to estradiol, which is why it's so much more dangerous than other, weaker, phytoestrogens. When you use PM, you're more or less dosing yourself with oral estradiol valerate. Because of this, I'm going to be trying something when I start taking it that I don't think anyone else has - putting it under my tongue just like you do estradiol pills.

I actually have not seen anybody talk about that subject, at least not with PM hopefully there aren't any complications

[AbiDrew85]

Pure HHM would be where I'm working entirely on the bodies own natural internal hormone pathways to reshape them to my own purposes.

The main problem I was having with the approach was that I couldn't do anything to increase my estrogen really. Some of what I was doing was redirecting some of my T into E, but no where near enough.

Examples of HHM herbs are things like saw palmetto, licorice root, chaste berry, chinese skullcap... there're WAAAAAAAY too many to list even half of them without literally writing a book on the subject. Which would be a waste, because there're already excellent resources out there if you just know where to look and what to look for.

My main targets were the stages of reduction where a given molecule that started live as cholesterol gets reduced into various steroids. I wanted to boost the efficacy of some, while blocking others.

The method only partially works. It made me more androgynous, but that was it. Tender, puffy, nipples and areola, but no real development. Some fat redistribution, but nothing significant. Some lightening of body hair, but nothing significant.

My real goal is, of course, full transition... So I had to redesign my system to include actual progesterone and estrogen. I had toyed with weaker phytoestrogens, but none of them really worked. When I stumbled across PM, I decided to do more research on why people seem to have so much more success with it, and thus my new plan started taking shape with my discovery that PM's major phytochemical is almost identical to estradiol.