[mochaccino]

Wait?! How do you know that BO hits the alpha receptors? This is the first I've heard of this. Why might it be more effective to hit both kinds of receptor? I'll be searching for the programs of people who combined the two, and checking out what their results were, but there can't be very many. It's a pretty rare combination, unless it's been more popular among the bio-males and I just haven't heard of it. I'm very interested in this. Do tell!

[AbiDrew85]

Haha. tibetan just asked that same question and I just answered it in her thread! But I'm happy to repeat it here.

I don't KNOW that as fact. There hasn't been anywhere near enough studies done on BO to say ANYTHING about it as fact. Other than that it's estrogenic, progestogenic, and mildly androgenic. But we can't factually KNOW for certain which receptors it's hitting more strongly.

I'm basing this more on extrapolation based on studies done on premarin. Which are horse estrogens conjugated from their urine. These studies did find that horse estrogens bind more strongly to alpha receptors than beta's, and even more strongly than natural human estradiol. They also indicated that they all but ignored the beta's.

Since BO is also animal source, and not human, I figure it'll likely be similar even though there are no studies to point to and prove it. Since human estradiol itself also tends to favor the alpha's and only go after the beta's if there's nothing else binding to them, I'd say there's a pretty strong pattern there.

Is it proof positive? Nope. And nor am I at all equipped to perform an adequate study to prove it. I think it'd be really interesting if one of the more expensive BO suppliers performed such a study though. Or someone else concerned the old Premarin scares could repeat themselves.

[AbiDrew85]

As for why it'd be more effective to hit both kinds of receptor... that's going to only be true for people seriously short on estrogens naturally. Most women have plenty of estradiol freed up by the saturation of their beta's by phyto's to bind to the alpha's.

Genetically male individuals on the other hand, generally have no natural estrogen to speak of, and as part of their androgen blocking will often block off what little estrogen they did produce naturally, at least, if they're trying to go for full fem.

For them, they have nothing to hit those alpha's at all if ALL they use are phyto's.

Soooo... I'm using BO in hopes of hitting my alpha's with animal estrogens while the PM goes to work on the beta's.

Why is it important to saturate both receptors to the best of your abilities? I'd think that should be pretty obvious - we're trying to emulate early puberty here. Tell our bodies it's still time to grow. What happens during early puberty? We're absolutely flooded with hormones. Which hit both receptors.

At least, that's what I'M trying to do...

[TibetanPrincess]

I agree Abidrew,

If you have high amounts of estrogen as it is, it may be a dangerous combo.

But those who are like you or me(low in everything) I can see how this would theoretically work.

[mochaccino]

Thanks. I'm definitely putting that on the list of possible supplements to try, but I definitely won't mess with it until I've confirmed that I have low E. Is it really possible to have significantly low E if you have a regular period and no signs of early menopause? (aside from the fat redistribution, which might not be a symptom of anything at all) I guess I'll find out after the test.

[AbiDrew85]

OH! And in case any one is curious what I'm referring to by the "old premarin scares"...

One of the things those studies were concerned about was why did it seem that there was an increased rate of occurrence of feminine cancers in women who were on premarin for hrt?

What they wound up discovering was that premarin was EXTREMELY aggressive for alpha receptors, literally forcing what estradiol the women were still producing onto the beta's. Since these women were older and therefore had much much larger receptor counts and their receptors were already damaged by age, when the estradiol flooded their beta's it quite literally took already damaged tissue and inflamed it like no tomorrow. This inflammation directly led to the increased risk of cancer.

So, I would actually quite honestly suggest most women steer clear of excessive BO doses UNLESS they also take phyto's to keep the estradiol off those beta's. Especially as they get older. The risks aren't as severe in younger women. After all, every teen girl experiences a flood during early puberty and most never get cancer at that age.

But as you get older, and your cancer risk rises... It is my honest opinion that animal source estrogens are best left alone in natal females.

Of course, if my extrapolation of the pattern is completely wrong, then there's nothing to worry about... but since there aren't any conclusive studies either way, and there ARE conclusive studies done on premarin... Isn't it better safe than sorry?

[AbiDrew85]

OK. So... It's technically the last day of the month, not the first day of next month, but since tomorrow is also a Monday, and I have school, I'll be doing my monthly update today instead. Expect this to be a pattern. I'll do my "first of the month" updates on the nearest Saturday or Sunday to the actual first of the month rather than the actual first of the month unless that lands on a weekend already.

My Vital Statistics:

Code:

Age: 27
Sex: Genetically Male
Gender: Mentally Female
Height: 5'4"
Starting Weight: 140 lbs
Starting Sizes:
     35" above bust
     37" over bust
     33" under bust
     29" waist
     37" hips
Current Weight: 140 lbs
Current Sizes:
     36.5" above bust
     37" over bust
     32" under bust
     29" waist
     36" hips

Okay, so with where I'm starting and my present achievements out of the way, let's recap my goals.

My external goals:

• Slim my waist to 27" and lose at least 20 lbs to do so.
  
• Increase my hip and bust while maintaining a 1:1 ratio or as close to as possible.
  
• Decrease my body hair
  
• Improve my head hair
  
• Improve my nails
  
• Thin and soften my skin
  

My internal goals:

• Bring my Testosterone levels down to as close to or within female range as possible.
  
• Bring my Estrogen levels (both from BO and PM) up to a level comparable to those of an MtF transsexual on estradiol valerate.
  
• Bring my Progesterone levels up to a level in harmony with my elevated estrogen levels.
  

Those are some hefty goals, I know!

Well, let's talk about my progress so far. It's only roughly 2 and half, 3 weeks in, but... I'm already noticing a severely reduced rate of body hair regrowth, my nails even though I haven't really mentioned them are definitely becoming quite a bit healthier looking, though I had to snip them off because of a split nail ugh. My head hair is the healthiest it's ever been and my hairline recovery does seem to be accelerating, as are my eyebrows. I haven't really noticed any major changes further to my skin as compared to when I was on anti-androgens only yet though.

Although I don't seem to be actually losing any weight, I do somehow actually be smoothing out my waistline anyways. There's a visible difference even if there isn't a measured one. I'm not losing any waist size either. What's there is just becoming smoother and less obviously pudgy. I still want to lose weight and a coupla waist sizes, but I don't seem to be effecting a change there.

I did actually somehow have a MEASURABLE loss in my hips. This is the OPPOSITE of what I want... I want to lose my waist, not what little bit of hip padding I have!

My breasts have seen the most marked change, going from barely-there beestings to a definitely-there small A cup. My band size went down from a 34 to a 32. And I filled out a little more above the bust, giving me slight cleavage. This is absolutely wonderful.

So lets recap my supplement plan...

My Supplement Plan (with product links):

• Ainterol Pueraria Mirifica Extract (liquid):
  I have been taking 3 drops a day, starting tomorrow this will be ramped up to 4 drops. I am taking it diluted with water, chased with more water most of the time. I occasionally take it directly on my tongue and then eat ice cream or something else that's strong enough to wash down the nasty taste.
  -
  
• Doctor's Best Saw Palmetto Extract:
  1 cap in the morning and at lunch and 2 caps at dinner.
  1280 mg per day.
  -
  
• Swanson Premium Full-Spectrum Chinese Skullcap:
  4 caps 3 times a day.
  4800 mg per day.
  -
  
• Swanson Premium Menogest Progesterone Cream:
  1/8 teaspoon on my left in the morning, on my right in the evening, alternating between wrists and thighs daily.
  Should deliver about 10mg of USP progesterone to my bloodstream a day.
  -
  
• Swanson Premium Raw Ovarian Glandular:
  4 caps 3 times a day.
  3 grams per day.
  -
  
• Swanson Ultra Whole Food Multi without Iron:
  Just following the product label, splitting it into 3 doses.
  -
  
• Swanson Premium Hair, Skin, & Nails:
  Just following the product label.
  -
  
• Swanson Premium Vitamin B-125 Complex:
  Double dosing, breakfast and lunch.
  -
  
• Swanson Ultra CoQ10/Traditional Red Yeast Rice Complex:
  Just following the product label.
  -
  
• Swanson Best Weight-Control Formulas Glucomannan+:
  2 caps 3 times per day.
  -
  
• Swanson Best Weight-Control Formulas Fat Burner:
  2 caps 3 times per day.
  

I am also on a "lean food" diet. I have severely cut back my carbs, salts, fats, etc, and am eating only high-protein foods and only eating between 900-1300 calories a day.

Further I have been continuing with my noogling, though I am not nearly as consistent with it as I ought to be.

I am certain that part of the reason the fat loss isn't occurring like desired is because I have not been getting on my bike as I had planned. When I get home from my cosmetology class all I want to do is veg. I need to figure out a way to force myself to actually start up my cycling habit again, no matter how worn out I feel after school.

I now believe that my CS dosage is exactly right for my T levels... I do seem to be awfully good at guesstimating my correct doses...

So yeah... my plan is definitely already starting to get some results. Hopefully the ones I'm getting continue and I can figure out a way to better target the fat burning. I'm burning my hips, not my waist. And that's just not what I want to do.

I think the only reason I'm not losing anything in the bust from the fat-loss part of my plan is because it's all breast tissue up there, and not fat at all in the first place at this point. This may change in the future, but I kind of doubt it. Not as long as I continue with my lean foods diet.

[AbiDrew85]

Don't anyone ever listen to me about diet at all period. I'm an anorexic.

No. I'm really not. But try telling that to anyone who sees what I'm eating these days and they insist there's absolutely no way I could possibly be getting enough nutrition.

Let's take a look again at what I'm eating each day.

When I first get up in the morning I take my morning dose, about a half hour later I eat a bagel with honey glaze. My morning dose includes tons of vitamins and minerals, honey contains tons of vitamins and minerals, a bagel has around 400 calories, 1-2 grams fat, less than a gram of salt, 74 grams of carbs only 4 grams of which from sugars, and 12-14 grams of protein. The honey glaze probably adds about 50 more calories and 15 grams of sugars, so 450 calories at this point, tons of micro-nutrients, not too high salt or fat, about 20 grams of mostly single-molecular sugars (the best for you!), 70 grams complex carb, and 12-14 grams protein.

Just before I leave for school or on the way to school I eat a Strawberry-Gojiberry Fage Greek Yogurt... No fat or cholesterol, only 50mg salts still keeps my salt below a gram, 16g sugar (a lot more table sugar this time though, but that's impossible to avoid ugh), 1g complex carb, and 13 grams protein. Calories 120.

So at this point I'm at 570 calories, tons of micro-nutrients, not too high salt or fat, about 36 grams sugars, more than two thirds of which are single molecule sugars, 71 grams complex carb, and 25-27 grams protein.

Around about mid-morning I eat a banana. My salts now go over a gram, but around 800mg of those are sodium and then around 400mg potassium. Banana's are extremely rich in minerals and rich in vitamins, just over 100 calories, less than a gram of fat, 9.5 grams complex carb, 3 grams fiber, 14 grams fructose, and about a gram of protein.

I'm now at 675 calories, tons of micro-nutrients, 1.2 grams salt, less than a gram of sodium and less than half a gram of potassium, very low fat, about 50 grams sugars with well over 3/4ths being single-molecular sugars, 80 grams complex carbs, and 26-28 grams protein.

Around noon and then mid-afternoon I eat half of my protein-paste with sharp cheddar on rye bread sandwich. So by mid-afternoon I can add the sandwich to my intake. Also around noon I take my midday dose.

This sandwich is around 400 calories, has very little fat, no cholesterol, 500 mg sodium, 200mg potassium, 50 grams complex carbs, tons of fiber, some sugar, and a whopping 25 grams protein.

I now have 1075 calories, more than double the micro-nutrients from the morning, my fats are still low, still no cholesterol, my salts are still below 3 grams, my complex carbs are around 110 grams, my sugars around 60 grams and still well over 3/4ths from single-molecular sugars, and 51-53 grams of protein.

I end my day with a half chicken breast, broiled on a wire rack with the fat allowed to drip onto a SEPARATE drip pan. Extremely lean, there's almost no fat left, almost no cholesterol left, 130 calories, 25 grams of protein, no carbs, low sodium... I also take my final dose before eating.

I end my day at about 1200 calories, more than complete micro-nutrition, low fats, low cholesterol, low salt, 110 grams complex carbs, 60 grams sugars and mostly from single-molecular sugars, and 81-83 grams of protein. I get about 5 grams of protein from my supplements.

And they call me anorexic.

Me? I call it a reasonably balanced lean-foods diet for a moderately sedentary lifestyle for a person who weighs my target weight. It's somewhat starvation for my current weight, but that's OK. It's not so severely so, and it's broken up enough to keep my body from going into true starvation mode. I am getting complete and balanced nutrition for my body type. Should everyone or even anyone else necessarily go on the same kind of diet? Of course not.

EDIT: ACTUALLY, I'll need to add another 200-400 calories once I'm done trying to burn off fat if I get down to 120... If I stay 140 and still slim down somehow, then I'll need to add another 150 to that. If I end up 130.... not much change from 120 actually.

[AbiDrew85]

This is a conversation originally begun in Doll's thread, but I decided to bring it here, because it was taking up too much of her thread.

Oh wow! xD You make it seem like you have no shape at all! I mean, in that picture, I'm kinda at an angle, so I look even more shapeless than I did...but still...I had no hips...I somehow still had butt, though. Looking back on even older pictures, though, when I had even less hips than that, I also had THE smallest waist somehow (before I developed all these problems), so I guess that's what made me look like I kind of had hips. >.<

I KNOWWW! And that's EXACTLY how I've been made to feel by people in my life... Even though I ALSO get comments that I'm so lucky and so on from other people, they're people I don't really know, but then I get the crap negative ones from Mom and my older brother and...

It sucks that people are going to have that kind of attitude about that sort of thing, but it's something you're going to have to learn to deal with once you make such a big decision. My friend has been on HRT for the past two years or so, on and off (when she can afford it) and has lost many friends in the process. Not because they're not willing to still be friends with her, but because they refuse to accept her as female, and constantly refer to her as "him". And she wasn't willing to tolerate that anymore, and kicked those people out of her life. I think that's very strong of her, and it's what she needed to help herself feel better about herself. Unfortunately, her mom still has trouble accepting it, and, like you said, I just don't think she realizes what it's really doing to her when she does things like introduce her to people as "my son".

Exactly. And yeah, I've made a pretty well clean break from my old life. I can't avoid some people from then hearing about it because of my family also being friends with all the same people, but...

I don't know if the clean break is necessarily a good thing, part of me really wants to reconnect with at least some of my old friends, but another part of me is scared to death of how they'll respond. I really don't need that right now.

As for my family... I can't choose em, you know? But IF they keep this crap up though, one of these days they're going to find me gone, with my cell phone left behind, and their emails and social networking stuff blocked.

They'll only be permitted back in my life after that point if they can accept the real me. Period. I'll send select people new contact info over the snail mail and insist they keep it to themselves.

Have you really talked to them about it? I know some people will never fully understand no matter how many times you tell them, but in those situations, you still need to tell them over and over again that what they're doing is wrong, because maybe over time they'll really start to see things from your eyes.

Of course I have. And my mom had the audacity to point out that Renee Richard's sister still calls her a him and that "HE's OK with it."

My older brother just outright refuses to listen and just insists I'm cocking an attitude.

My dad is trying. Other family also vary. Only one so far has had absolutely no problems with the change whatsoever.

And just because you may not be genetically female doesn't mean you can't develop the body. Honestly, it sounds like you've got the body already, so you can only make progress from here. Yes, it will take years, but eventually your body will become more and more accustomed to "being female" with NBE (I've got the same outlook on my body LOL). Everyone comes in different shapes and sizes, so if you already have bigger hips than I did starting out, that goes to show just how female your body already is. Don't take no crap from no one!

Yeah... Easier said than done. Far easier said than done. I've said this a dozen times to myself and publicly and yet here I am, still seeing myself through a tainted lens. Other people have told me this both personally and publically, and yet here I am, still seeing myself through a tainted lens.

[Doll]

I really wish you the best of luck with your family. I may not personally know that exact situation, but I have seen first hand exactly what it does to people, and I know it really is rough. Hopefully over time they will finally be able to get it through their thick heads, but if not, maybe your plan to leave them out in the cold will do it (although it would suck for it to have to come down to that). And I can see how reconnecting with old friends could have you scared, because there's no way of telling how some people might react (even people you think you knew so well). So really, good luck, and don't try to let anyone put you down. I'm glad your dad at least is on your side, and you're not being just completely bombarded with negativity. It's always to have at least a few people to back you up and reassure you.