[chrishoney]

I came across a link to this blog post on another site I peruse that very succinctly refutes the article by British physician Richard Curtis that has been previously discussed on this board as well as Cheryl's. It's a good read makes some excellent points. Also see the response at the end of the post for an additional excellent point made by a ND.

http://biopsychologytstg.cniib.com/Biops...TSTG/?p=83

Cheers!

[flamesabers]

Thank you for the link.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but I question some of the relevance of the article for those who are pursuing NBE but have no desire to transition.

I'm curious as to why there is no mention of progesterone being used to prevent estrogen dominance.

[chrishoney]

I see the relevance in that we are trying to achieve larger, natural looking breasts, and progesterone can (according to some) aid that. Since no one to my knowledge is looking into helping males who want breasts while continuing to present essentially male, achieve that goal, we have to access information from sources that may not have our goals in mind, ie. MtF transitioning. To my way of thinking, since MtF transexuals are obsessed with growing breasts, it's a good place to look for helpful information.

Further, there has been previous (significant?) discussion about including progesterone and/or progesterone 'precursors' in NBE programs, so again, I think it is highly relevant. If it doesn't work for you, don't do it!


As to why there is no mention about progesterone helping with estrogen dominance, think about the intended audience of the blog--MtF transexuals. If you google "estrogen dominance in male to female transexuals" you will find a dearth of information. It may or may not be a problem for them. The intent of the blog post as I read it, was to discuss commonly held misconceptions (primarily as promulgated by Dr. Curtis) regarding progesterone use in MtF hormonal regimens.

[Pansy-Mae]

Thanks Chris, excellent article which I fully agree with. I've personally questioned Curtis's stuff before because even from a layman's POV I can see holes in the logic.

This next bit is somewhat anecdotal, even if it is a personal anecdote, but I'm pretty convinced of the need and effectiveness of Progesterone for 'us'.
I've said many times that it is a waste of time and money in the early stages, and I stick by that, and indeed the article seems to support that view.
My PM-fuelled growth virtually stopped after about 9 months or so, and nothing I did could get it going again, as I've reported several times in the past. Back around Easter this year, after much internal debate, I bit the bullet and tried Microgest for a month or so, without being convinced it was doing anything. I took a month or so break and then started again, this time I am absolutely convinced it is working, sensitivity is up all round and there is definite rounding and fullness ( Yesterday, by chance I put on V-necked top and gave myself a shock when I looked down and realised that I could see straight down between my boobs and the top, past my bra to my stomach below - the view that every guy tries to get when he sees a girl with a low-cut top!! )
When I put my routine pictures up a couple of weeks ago, others commented on the fullness as well http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=9317&page=7

BTW, I had previously worked my way through a couple of pots of topical nature-identical Prog cream with no effect - I somewhat suspect that this may be evidence that it IS necessary to have a certain amount of basic structure before Prog can contribute to the party. Whether my initial lack of response to Microgest was still a case of "too soon" or whether it was just taking time to build up to a level that could do anything, I don't know.

[Pansy-Mae]

Further, there has been previous (significant?) discussion about including progesterone and/or progesterone 'precursors' in NBE programs,

Since the vast majority of progesterone is manufactured in the ovaries and I for one don't have any of those I've never understood the point of progesterone pre-cursors, what would my body do with them?

[chrishoney]

I agree, there is no point to taking wild yam with the hope that it will increase serum progesterone levels. There is no enzymatic pathway in humans (in men OR women for that matter) to synthesize progesterone from those precursors. However, bioidentical progesterone such as Microgest is another story altogether and certainly seems like it would help us achieve our goals.

Also, until the development of micronized bioidentical progesterone, taking it by mouth was ineffective as the digestive processes and first pass through the liver metabolized it before it could have an effect. Until relatively recently topical or IM application was all there was and those were only available via prescription. Hope springs eternal and if you could have taken a bunch of wild yam capsules and increased your progesterone levels--shazaaam!!! That's got to better than going to a doc and begging for an injection.

My point was, that progesterone as part of an NBE program has been a topic of discussion on these boards and therefore the link I posted was relevant.

[AbiDrew85]

Absolutely nothing new here to me... I've LONG held that balanced progesterone and mimicry of the female cycle are ESSENTIAL.

Some of the arguments against, are, I think, in part, due to the taking of progestins and/or oral progesterone, which are indeed quite hazardous. PC is only hazardous if you OD.