[Julie71]

Back at the end of April I decided that I wanted larger breasts. For me this desire has an erotic arousal connection, as I have always found female breasts exciting and really wanted some of my own, maybe to about a B or C cup size. I wanted to remain male in presentation and function but with my own delicious boobies.

Several times in the 6 months my herbal dosages seem to have destroyed the erotic arousal impulse for breast enlargement. So I stop taking the herbs and after a few weeks the impulse has returned. Then a few weeks later it is no longer erotically interesting and I stop.

I WONDER IF ANYONE ELSE HAS HAD THIS EXPERIENCE.

For what it’s worth let me give a brief log of my experiences.

In the last week of April this year I started using Natureday’s liquid and creams and listening to hypno inductions to grow breasts. I also purchased Lucille’s Flat2Fem book, which seems to have a lot of good general information.

Through May and June I continued with this program. Maybe my bust grew ½ inch. It’s hard to be sure as during the same period I lost 18 lbs and accurate measurement is tricky. On June 17 I started pumping them with Noogleberry two times each day for an hour each time. I pumped for six weeks without noticing any size increase so I have dropped pumping from my program.

At the beginning of July I switched from Natureday to PM herbs, about 1000 mg per day along with 1800 mg saw palmetto and StHerb breast cream applications and progesterone cream. It was on July 29th that I realized I no longer had any erotic impulses either with breasts or genitally. So I stopped for three weeks. By August 22nd I had regained erotic life and started up again, this time with larger doses of PM (2000mg) internally and PM creams.

After two weeks all erotic impulse again disappeared and so again I stopped. I went through this cycle once more, starting again but now I have stopped. Earlier I had stopped listening to the hypnotic inductions as after many listens they had become boring and I was falling asleep.

As I look at this account, I notice that the disappearance of eroticism occurred during my use of PM, but maybe not with the Natureday herbs. Is it possible that PM herbs are so much more powerful or that they affect more than just breast growth? Hard to know; no “scientific studies” out here on the weird edge of humanity. After six months I think my breasts now have more body to them, even if no more projection.

I realize from reading this great breastnexus site that people respond differently to the various herbal programs and that different posters have different aims for their bodies—from complete feminization to private titillation.

I just wonder if anyone else has noticed this kind of fluctuation.

[flamesabers]

Hello Julie.

Welcome to the board.

Since I started taking pm I never really took any break from it. I have noticed a significant decrease in my sex drive, but then I don't think it was erotic arousal that was the motive for me to embark on NBE in the first place. I'm not particularly bothered by this change, so I haven't had a need to tinker around with my pm dosage.

I have not tried any of Natureday's products, but I think it's certainly a possibility pm is the more effective feminizing product.

Besides the breasts, I have also noticed fat redistribution around my hips and bum. Something else I have observed is brain-rewiring.

[Pansy-Mae]

So I stop taking the herbs and after a few weeks the impulse has returned. Then a few weeks later it is no longer erotically interesting and I stop.

I WONDER IF ANYONE ELSE HAS HAD THIS EXPERIENCE.

Hi,
Yes, pretty much everyone else on here ( apart from the completely TS members) has exactly the same experience and it's been discussed at length several times, if you do a search.
The reason for it is thought to be tied up with the basic reason for your trans-gender impulses in the first place.

There is a paper written by a TG-Specialist doctor in the US, postulating that if a mother's male/female hormone balance is out of kilter at a critical stage of brain development, when a male baby is in the womb, then the baby's brain gets programmed to expect a higher level of female hormones than it's male body can supply in later life.

Moving on from that, we think this leads us to try to 'feminise' ourselves in various ways, often by cross-dressing and/or wanting breasts of our own. However those of us who find NBE and start taking phyto-hormones are unwittingly suddenly giving the brain what it has been sub-conciously seeking and so the need to cross-dress or even actually grow the boobs, suddenly disappears . Of course subsequently stopping the herbs, which is a natural result of no longer 'needing' to grow the boobs, then unbalances the brain again and the need returns.

For me, I found that after a couple of turns on that see-saw, it settled down with my need for feminine things much diminished and the boob growth still there, but we are all different so you may find it works differently for you, although I don't think I'm atypical.

[Doll]

There is a paper written by a TG-Specialist doctor in the US, postulating that if a mother's male/female hormone balance is out of kilter at a critical stage of brain development, when a male baby is in the womb, then the baby's brain gets programmed to expect a higher level of female hormones than it's male body can supply in later life.

Moving on from that, we think this leads us to try to 'feminise' ourselves in various ways, often by cross-dressing and/or wanting breasts of our own. However those of us who find NBE and start taking phyto-hormones are unwittingly suddenly giving the brain what it has been sub-conciously seeking and so the need to cross-dress or even actually grow the boobs, suddenly disappears . Of course subsequently stopping the herbs, which is a natural result of no longer 'needing' to grow the boobs, then unbalances the brain again and the need returns.

I've never heard that before, but it makes so much sense. I have seen plenty of members here who go through this; for biological males, it's very common. For myself, I'm quite the opposite, and would prefer to be male, and NBE isn't doing a thing so far to make me feel/want to feel more feminine. ^^;

[Julie71]

Flamesabers

I have not tried any of Natureday's products, but I think it's certainly a possibility pm is the more effective feminizing product.

Besides the breasts, I have also noticed fat redistribution around my hips and bum. Something else I have observed is brain-rewiring.

PM may be stronger than Natureday’s herbal mixture. Alternatively, each herb may have more effect on one part of the body than another and, to complicate the picture even more, the effects will differ among users. Natureday’s product literature claims that it affects only or mainly breast growth, but surely such claims are based mostly on lore and anecdotes (and even wishfulness).

I haven’t noticed any fat redistribution. However, fairly soon after starting Natureday’s herbs I did notice a kind of increased clarity of my mental/visual field and I generally just felt good, sort of like a modest high. I do attribute that to the herbs. I haven’t noticed these feeling to change lately whether I am taking herbs or not. Permanent changes?

Pansy-Mae

For me, I found that after a couple of turns on that see-saw, it settled down with my need for feminine things much diminished and the boob growth still there, but we are all different so you may find it works differently for you, although I don't think I'm atypical.

Your theory would account for the see-saw aspect. Actually I had read some of your other postings where you laid out these ideas, but somehow I had not realized how it might apply to my situation. Thank you for showing me how it does.

A question: how many “turns on that see-saw” did it take for you to get past it?

Doll
Let me see if I understand. You are a biological female who would prefer to be male and you are engaged in the discussions here because you are hoping that something will help you “feel/want to feel more feminine”? I do hope something here will be of help.

[AbiDrew85]

Honestly Doll... If you really TRULY would prefer to be male, you should start talking to a psychiatrist/psychologist about it... It's possible that there's more to it than you realize right now...

You don't really come across as masculine to me at all though... Which is strange.

I have heard a lot of girls joke about how males have it so much better and how if they could choose yadda yadda... And I do have to agree, true males do have it a lot easier, part of that though is their point of view, their way of thinking. There really is something to the joke that guys think with only their stomachs and dicks. They're not quite THAT simple, but it's close.

[Doll]

Doll
Let me see if I understand. You are a biological female who would prefer to be male and you are engaged in the discussions here because you are hoping that something will help you “feel/want to feel more feminine”? I do hope something here will be of help.

Lol Yes. ^^; It's a little more complicated than that, but then again, it always is.
I've always wanted to be male, even as a child. But I would never want to get the surgery to complete the transformation because I still wouldn't feel completely male without all the parts working properly. And I would have been pretty ok with just dressing the part and acting male, except that my breasts in the beginning were already full 32B's...too much to pass as male, too little to be completely feminine...not to mention that I'm more straight than gay (maybe about 80/20), and I would be even more miserable not being able to date whom I want. So I figured I'd go the complete opposite way with things and try to become as feminine as possible and forget about being male! And, while it is distracting me the curvier and more feminine I become, it still won't let me completely forget about it.

I want to blame this high T-count, but I honestly think part of the problem is that I'm pretty sexist against females, and growing up almost all of my friends were boys.

[Pansy-Mae]

I've never heard that before, but it makes so much sense. I have seen plenty of members here who go through this; for biological males, it's very common. For myself, I'm quite the opposite, and would prefer to be male, and NBE isn't doing a thing so far to make me feel/want to feel more feminine. ^^;

Hi Doll,
Well, given the basic idea and assuming it is more or less correct, in principle I see no reason why it wouldn't work the other way round as well. i.e that if the mother has too much T then the baby's brain expects that level in later life although her body can't supply it.

BTW, I can completely relate to your comments about not wanting GRS etc because you wouldnt be fully male. Thats the way I think about being female.. I wish I was but I know I'm not and never can be.

[Pansy-Mae]

PM may be stronger than Natureday’s herbal mixture.

Almost certainly is

Alternatively, each herb may have more effect on one part of the body than another

Not too sure about that...it isn't the herb having the effect, its the hormonal content of the herb having the effect. Oestrogenic phyto-hormones will only affect oestrogen receptors and then the body will do whatever it does, in response to that stimulus. Certainly there are several different oestrogens which have different effects for different purposes, but what they do and where they do it is fixed.

and, to complicate the picture even more, the effects will differ among users.

Oh definitely

Natureday’s product literature claims that it affects only or mainly breast growth, but surely such claims are based mostly on lore and anecdotes (and even wishfulness).

I don't really understand what other areas you think it could affect?

I haven’t noticed any fat redistribution.

No, nor have I, unfortunately! I'd love to get a bigger bum/hips/legs!

However, fairly soon after starting Natureday’s herbs I did notice a kind of increased clarity of my mental/visual field and I generally just felt good, sort of like a modest high. I do attribute that to the herbs. I haven’t noticed these feeling to change lately whether I am taking herbs or not.

You see, that's a classic example of "we're all different".... I've never noticed any kind of mental changes and my wife agrees.

Permanent changes?

It may depend on how long you stop for. It takes me about 3 weeks of taking nothing before I start to notice the CD coming back.

Actually I had read some of your other postings where you laid out these ideas, but somehow I had not realized how it might apply to my situation. Thank you for showing me how it does.

Glad to be of help. The thread where this was gone into at length is at http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10058&pid=36757&highlight=anne+vitale#pid36757

A question: how many “turns on that see-saw” did it take for you to get past it?

Hmm...good question and I'm not really sure tbh. Some of it was back before we found the Anne Vitale theory and I think it was kind of like the swing of a pendulum slowly getting less on each pass until it settles in the middle, but of course the last few swings are barely noticeable. For want of a better number about 3 or 4 I would say, but again we are all different FWIW, I've settled on always wearing female trousers and undies and jumpers and heels when I'm at home, but no wig or make-up. I put a skirt on yesterday for the first time in about 6 months. Previously, it was the whole lot or nothing, short skirts and I'd have died rather than wear trousers or tights, plus enough make-up to keep Max Factor's profits on an even keel!

[Doll]

Hi Doll,
Well, given the basic idea and assuming it is more or less correct, in principle I see no reason why it wouldn't work the other way round as well. i.e that if the mother has too much T then the baby's brain expects that level in later life although her body can't supply it.

BTW, I can completely relate to your comments about not wanting GRS etc because you wouldnt be fully male. Thats the way I think about being female.. I wish I was but I know I'm not and never can be.

That's what I was thinking. I'm sure that's not my case, since my PCOS seems to give me about the same amount of T as men my age, but that probably explains it for a lot of others out there.

And I thought I might be the only one that really felt that way. ^^; Everyone trans seems to just be so comfortable with becoming the opposite sex, and seem to fit into that sex pre-op (and some are completely comfortable as the other gender without ever planning to go through surgery!) I honestly considered it back in high school, and did a lot of research on it, but after enough thought, realized it would still never be enough in my mind. Strangely, I don't feel completely female, and I guess that's why I can be so sexist against other females without truly putting myself down about it.