[AbiDrew85]

I thought one of the foundations of this forum was not to be judgmental of others' opinions and choices. Therefore, referring to someone as a "transphobic piece of trash" and "narrow minded" because his opinions about the nature of life differs from yours is rather hypocritical, isn't it...

Maybe if it had come from the one being attacked... But it wasn't me who attacked him back directly, that was Luxy. It's me and people like me who he disagrees with. Apparently he has no problem with genetic females like Luxy wanting to enhance their bodies, but someone born male absolutely MUST remain a male! And a broad and flat-chested, line-backer at that!

Honestly. I can understand his difficulties in understanding. So I'm not going to take it out against him. He did hurt me a little. But life goes on and it really wouldn't have served me any benefit to reciprocate his attack on my character with an attack on his.

Honestly the thought that I might do such a thing at all never even occurred to me, and it actually does do so upon occasion. I usually contain it though, I hope. I try to at least.

Anyways. His whole point about this entire mess was him being judgemental of "men who grow boobs" - whatever our reasons. And labeling us all as "transvestite rookies". Curiously, by definition, absolutely none of us are really transvestites. Transvestites would have no interest in growing their own breasts or feminizing their bodies in the least. Even those guys around here who don't consider themselves actually female still wouldn't be transvestites... They'd be something else entirely. That's why I say gender is a spectrum. It's not even a simple sliding scale, but goes up and down and side to side and deep and shallow and... It goes in several dimensions at once.

So, he was the one being judgemental of other's opinions and choices to begin with. Yes, it was a bit much for Luxy to attack him personally like that, though touching.

I think she just felt like being a little bitchy and he made himself a convenient target.

[Luxy]

Looks like I was more offended than you where AbiDrew85. I just cant imagine the judgement and bullshit you have to go through. And I have a really hard time being nice to mean people, which.... makes me sort of mean sometimes. lol. Forgive me, my heart was in the right place i'm just not very graceful with words. <3

[Mono]

Wahaika has decided to leave this forum due to his convictions and beliefs wich is respectful since he didn't tried to impose them on others. Since most religions forbid all kind of body alteration (actually all religions exept buddhism) it's not so shocking to have this kind of opinion and it has nothing to do with racism. Wahaika doesn't deserve to be treated this way due to his convictions since his true motivation is to help others. If the answer was so evident as black or white then guys with boobs wouldn't be a taboo and there wouldn't be so much debate on sexual identity.[/b][/i]

[Luxy]

Wahaika has decided to leave this forum due to his convictions and beliefs wich is respectful since he didn't tried to impose them on others. Since most religions forbid all kind of body alteration (actually all religions exept buddhism) it's not so shocking to have this kind of opinion and it has nothing to do with racism. Wahaika doesn't deserve to be treated this way due to his convictions since his true motivation is to help others. If the answer was so evident as black or white then guys with boobs wouldn't be a taboo and there wouldn't be so much debate on sexual identity.[/b][/i]

"true motivation is to help others." lololol excluding transsexuals because they can go fuck themselves right? And if I had a nickle for every time someone used their religious beliefs to justify being an bigoted asshole id have breast implants already.

also i never said it had anything to do with racism. You should read my post better, i was doing a comparison.

If Wahaika had come on here and said "sorry but i have to leave because i don't want to help black people because my religion and or personal beliefs" you guys would have a shit fit. Or maybe not.

[Mono]

He said that he doesn't want to help them destroy their lives and not something like he didn't want to help them because they are disgusting or whatever. If you believe that your actions are not helping others but harming them and you stop do you really think it's a bad thing?

[AbiDrew85]

there wouldn't be so much debate on sexual identity.

While there is a lot of debate on sexual identity, there was no such debate taking place at this time. Gender identity was what Wahaika was having a problem with.

And I'm not disparaging him for his problem. I hope and pray that someday he can get over it, but... that's for him to deal with.

If religions truly had a problem with "body modification" then every last one of us is going to hell. Since I happen to know that he WAS attempting to help the women here "modify" their bodies, his problem wasn't a religious one.

Also... I honestly can't think of a single religion that universally condemns ALL body modifications. Some condemn certain ones, yes. But none condemn all. Even the most severe ones that I know of don't forbid cutting your hair. And that's a body modification. Or shaving/epilating. That's a body modification. Only a very very small few condemn a modest pair of earrings.

Anyways. I truly am saddened to see Wahaika go and hope that someday he can come to accept that gender is not a binary.

[Luxy]

"He said that he doesn't want to help them destroy their lives"

which, again, is transphobic because implies that by transitioning or changing their body in anyway is somehow wrong.

but its "not something like he didn't want to help them because they are disgusting or whatever"

How sweet very sweet of him for not calling transsexualism disgusting. This dude obviously deserves some kind of award.

as for "If you believe that your actions are not helping others but harming them and you stop do you really think it's a bad thing?"

No not at all. Thats why I said "Good riddance."

[Mono]

Islam doesn't allow you to shave or cut your hair for exemple. But whatever ...

[AbiDrew85]

He said that he doesn't want to help them destroy their lives and not something like he didn't want to help them because they are disgusting or whatever. If you believe that your actions are not helping others but harming them and you stop do you really think it's a bad thing?

Right. And this belief of his that we are destroying our lives is not itself being degrading and condemning and JUDGEMENTAL of and to us? C'mon.

I agree Luxy took things too far, but don't you think you are as well?

I was doing a mighty fine job of destroying my life while trying to live it as a male. If I were forced to truly go back to that I'm honestly not sure what would happen. I don't think I'd commit suicide straight out. But I'll also for certain cease living. I was an automaton before. Almost went comatose once. My bets are on actually GOING comatose. How long do you think a hospital would keep me on life support before pulling the plug? A pre-op transsexual without a penny to her name, no health insurance, no life insurance, parents in debt... Herself in debt to school loans. C'mon. Keeping me alive would just cost them money. Lots of it.

How's his refusal to help me preventing me from "destroying my life"? If I was not a person quite so darned stubborn and relentless in finding information to help myself, he could very well have devastated me and THAT would have truly "destroyed my life".

So who here's the pot calling which kettle black? I'm sorry mono, but your defense of him has no standing.

He IS being a bigot. But bigots CAN change, and I hope for his sake that someday he does. Because he's going to quickly find that this world is full of transsexuals and we're getting quite tired of it. I'm TAME and NICE about it. Someday he'll piss off the wrong girl and find out that I'm really a bit of a rarity.

[AbiDrew85]

Islam doesn't allow you to shave or cut your hair for exemple. But whatever ...

Actually Islam does not itself condemn either. I could link you pictures of Islamic men with buzzed heads and Islamic women with obviously plucked eyebrows if you'd like?

Certain extremist sects do... but... they're insane to be quite honest...