Posts: 249
Threads: 26
Joined: Sep 2011
Hi ...
This past week I had my "routine" Blood test for Testosterone. I am on Testosterone Replacement Therapy ... back in 2010 my Total T levels were diagnosed at 200 and below ... I was depressed, VERY moody, no energy, not a fun place to be. So I started TRT using a product called Testim. I have blood tests every 6 months to check my Total Testosterone Levels. Using 1 tube of Testim each day my Total T levels are usually around "800".
This is the 1st Blood Test that I've had since taking PM ... the Doctor said everything looked perfect (I had a full blood workup plus the Total T test) EXCEPT my Total T .... it was over 1300. I started to google around a little and found many hits that talked about PM raising LH levels in both men and women. If LH goes up it does two things ... in men more Testosterone is created by the body ... in women more Estrogen and Progesterone ....
From previous blood tests I know that using this Testim product pretty much "0"s out my LH .... causing my body to stop producing it's own testosterone .... using a single tube a day .... levels around 800. Now with PM (I didn't have an LH blood test) it looks like my LH is coming back up .... so I produce around "500" of my own .... added to the "800" I usually get from Testim ... and I end up with "1300"
So for what it's worth .... without SPECIFIC LH/FSH Tests ... it looks like PM is actually raising my LH and causing my body to produce my own Testosterone. This might be something for Men and Women to keep in mind when using PM ... Estrogen/Progesterone levels MAY increase in women (how much not known) and Total Testosterone MAY increase in Men (it did in my case).
Take it for what it's worth .... maybe something to add to the "equation"
karen
Posts: 1,453
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2012
(09-12-2012, 02:22 PM)karen Wrote: Hi ...
This past week I had my "routine" Blood test for Testosterone. I am on Testosterone Replacement Therapy ... back in 2010 my Total T levels were diagnosed at 200 and below ... I was depressed, VERY moody, no energy, not a fun place to be. So I started TRT using a product called Testim. I have blood tests every 6 months to check my Total Testosterone Levels. Using 1 tube of Testim each day my Total T levels are usually around "800".
This is the 1st Blood Test that I've had since taking PM ... the Doctor said everything looked perfect (I had a full blood workup plus the Total T test) EXCEPT my Total T .... it was over 1300. I started to google around a little and found many hits that talked about PM raising LH levels in both men and women. If LH goes up it does two things ... in men more Testosterone is created by the body ... in women more Estrogen and Progesterone ....
From previous blood tests I know that using this Testim product pretty much "0"s out my LH .... causing my body to stop producing it's own testosterone .... using a single tube a day .... levels around 800. Now with PM (I didn't have an LH blood test) it looks like my LH is coming back up .... so I produce around "500" of my own .... added to the "800" I usually get from Testim ... and I end up with "1300"
So for what it's worth .... without SPECIFIC LH/FSH Tests ... it looks like PM is actually raising my LH and causing my body to produce my own Testosterone. This might be something for Men and Women to keep in mind when using PM ... Estrogen/Progesterone levels MAY increase in women (how much not known) and Total Testosterone MAY increase in Men (it did in my case).
Take it for what it's worth .... maybe something to add to the "equation"
karen
This is actually part of why I'm on such high doses of two different T blocker herbs... haha. I hadn't really mentioned this because I guess I assumed everyone already knew it, and that's why most of the guys take T blockers. My natural production is already high, and with the possibility of PM raising my LH which in turn would raise my T production even further... yeah... I'm blocking my T off thoroughly thank you very much
Posts: 249
Threads: 26
Joined: Sep 2011
(09-12-2012, 03:30 PM)AbiDrew85 Wrote: This is actually part of why I'm on such high doses of two different T blocker herbs... haha. I hadn't really mentioned this because I guess I assumed everyone already knew it, and that's why most of the guys take T blockers. My natural production is already high, and with the possibility of PM raising my LH which in turn would raise my T production even further... yeah... I'm blocking my T off thoroughly thank you very much
When you say T Blocker do you mean DHT Blocker (a 5 alpha-reductase inihibitor?) or do you mean something that blocks Total Testosterone? If you are blocking Total Testosterone then you are also blocking Estradiol's Natural Production ... I suspect you mean DHT ... way too many articles say Block Testosterone when they mean block DHT ... IMHO it adds to the confusion
karen
Posts: 1,453
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2012
(09-12-2012, 04:04 PM)karen Wrote: you say T Blocker do you mean DHT Blocker (a 5 alpha-reductase inihibitor?) or do you mean something that blocks Total Testosterone? If you are blocking Total Testosterone then you are also blocking Estradiol's Natural Production ... I suspect you mean DHT ... way too many articles say Block Testosterone when they mean block DHT ... IMHO it adds to the confusion
karen
Both actually. I am blocking DHT with saw palmetto and Total T with chinese skullcap. Both also partially block the receptors. So I'm actually doing all three forms of T blocking. And that's the way I use the term... If I was referring to DHT blocking I'd say so. Total T I'd say so. Receptor blocking I'd say so. Since I'm doing all three, it's "T blocking".
I realize this also blocks natural production of estrogens, but there's no real way to avoid that and bring my T down to the trickle that I need it to be. Besides, eventually it is my intention to "go all the way" and I won't have anything to naturally produce ANY of these hormones.
As soon as my estradiol gets here I'll be taking care of any lost estradiol and more...
Posts: 249
Threads: 26
Joined: Sep 2011
09-12-2012, 05:12 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2012, 05:30 PM by
karen.)
Removed by user
Posts: 3,041
Threads: 130
Joined: Mar 2012
I feel kind of stupid for asking this, but here I go.
If pm raises LH levels and higher LH levels in turn increases testosterone levels, how is it possible for me to get breast growth? I'm not taking SP but I'm using progesterone cream. However, I was able to get some breast growth even before adding the progesterone cream into my routine. Or is this just not relevant to me because I'm not on testosterone replacement therapy?
Posts: 55
Threads: 2
Joined: Oct 2012
(09-12-2012, 08:55 PM)flamesabers Wrote: I feel kind of stupid for asking this, but here I go.
If pm raises LH levels and higher LH levels in turn increases testosterone levels, how is it possible for me to get breast growth? I'm not taking SP but I'm using progesterone cream. However, I was able to get some breast growth even before adding the progesterone cream into my routine. Or is this just not relevant to me because I'm not on testosterone replacement therapy?
Testosterone doesn't necessarily BLOCK secondary feminine characteristics to form, it's just some of them will conflict (dominant hormone will do majority of the fat redistribution for example). But I'm no doctor, it's just an assumption.
Posts: 3,041
Threads: 130
Joined: Mar 2012
(09-12-2012, 11:16 PM)aleah Wrote: Testosterone doesn't necessarily BLOCK secondary feminine characteristics to form, it's just some of them will conflict (dominant hormone will do majority of the fat redistribution for example). But I'm no doctor, it's just an assumption.
Judging from my fat redistribution, I would say feminine hormones are the ones in charge.
But yeah, I agree that seeing a doctor would be the only way to get a definite answer on this.
Posts: 1,453
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2012
(10-12-2012, 12:13 AM)flamesabers Wrote: But yeah, I agree that seeing a doctor would be the only way to get a definite answer on this.
Too many variables.
I know what'd happen with me if I stopped my T-blockers. My development would stop, possible I'd lose some, and my body hair will return with a vengeance. My fat will start distributing like it used to again as well.
But this isn't going to necessarily be true for the next person. There's too many things that can change the way a certain body responds to a certain combination of hormones.
An endocrinologist stands the best chance at figuring out why a particular person responds a particular way, but even endo's usually end up doing some guesswork when it comes to HRT.
Posts: 249
Threads: 26
Joined: Sep 2011
(09-12-2012, 08:55 PM)flamesabers Wrote: I feel kind of stupid for asking this, but here I go.
If pm raises LH levels and higher LH levels in turn increases testosterone levels, how is it possible for me to get breast growth? I'm not taking SP but I'm using progesterone cream. However, I was able to get some breast growth even before adding the progesterone cream into my routine. Or is this just not relevant to me because I'm not on testosterone replacement therapy?
Hi Flamesaber ....
It's a little different for someone that IS NOT taking Testosterone Replacement Therapy like me. Your body wants to ALWAYS balance itself ... so if PM increases LH and "your" body in turn produces more Testosterone then your anterior pituitary gland sees the extra T and "it" lowers your LH ... balancing itself out. In my case the Testim that I use everyday drives my LH down to almost "0" ... I think it was .7 at one time .... so lets say that the PM kicks it back up to "2.0" (thats just a wild ass guess) .... my body produces some of it's own T and I add my 1 tube of T ... and thats what drives mine up too high.
Some of that my have been lost in the exchange with AbiDrew85 ... as he stated "he assumed" people knew what was being discussed .... so I guess there's at least two of us that didn't
There's so many factors that are diiferent for someone that is adding Testorterone is a tube. There's a very fine line between "0" DHT and the "Minimum amount of DHT you need" that I don't take anything for granted ...
karen
