[On The Fence]

Hi Guys,

I just joined and i am wondering if anyone has had any breast enhancement from Androgel. Have always had a girly side and thought about jumping the fence many times. Never had the nerve. Now i'm 61 still married and now it's too late. On a upside, my T was low and i started using Androgel. Not following the directions exactly, i have been putting it on my chest, arms and shoulders. My nipples are very puffy and my chest is getting bigger. I am not looking to wear a bra but I am excited about the growth. If anyone else has had any experience with Androgel 1.62, I would love to hear about it. Happy New Year!!!

[flamesabers]

Hello.

I haven't used Androgel but I have seen a few of its commercials. My advice is if you want to grow breasts, use something that's actually designed to stimulate breast growth as opposed to being a side-effect. Besides enlarged breasts, Androgel can also cause sleep apena, blood clots, swollen body parts, and increase your risk of getting prostate cancer. While there are various ways to grow breasts, some methods are much safer than others. For example, while it's possible for males to develop breasts by continually drinking an excess of alcohol, I would never suggest to anyone to try this.

I recommend searching these boards for the various herbal regimes members use to get an idea of what you can use to grow breasts without endangering your health. If you don't feel comfortable or ready to purchase and take feminizing herbs for the purpose of developing your breast tissue, I think trying to grow breasts no matter what the method, is not a good idea for you.

If you haven't already, I strongly recommend you consider your motive for wanting to grow breasts. Do you want to eventually transition and live as a woman full-time? Do you feel you're in the middle of the gender spectrum and that growing breasts will help bring about a sense of calmness and peace in your mind? Do you want to grow breasts but otherwise live and appear as a male?

[PattiJT]

On The Fence, My first advice to you would be to use the product as advised. The producer web site specifically says "apply to shoulders and upper arms that will be covered by a t-shirt". I suspect that this is not only because those area are primarily made up of muscles, but also to avoid contact by others, such as your spouse. Such contact will cause undesireable changes to her! I don't know what your current "breast" situation is, but if you're like a lot of older men, you may have some "male breast" tissue already. If so, be aware that it is not muscle, but rather, is mostly fat. Fat, from what I've seen, is a hormone magnet. Once it grabs a hormone, it ain't lettin"go!! That's the big reason many creams and patches, as well as injections, are recommended for muscle zones, so the body can absorb them properly. I have the Androderm 4mg patches, and nowhere in the product info sheet does it mention breast growth or even tenderness as a side effect. It could be that your chest is not providing proper absorbtion, keeping it all locally, and causing an irritation or some similar effect due to improper use. Talk to your doctor, and be honest with him and tell him you haven't been following his directions, and get his opinion. If you don't want to tell him you've been doing it wrong, at least start doing it right, and see what happens then.

This stuff is potent!! If you are using it regularly, (and correctly) you should note changes quite rapidly!! I sure did!! I quit using them because they gave me skin irritation that took forever to go away, as well as my wife wasn't exactly thrilled with my increase in libido!! If you continue using it, be respectful of your wife and prevent any contact between her and the gell, even after dried. Hell, I wouldn't even let her be around when it was open so she could breathe the stuff!! When she starts growing hair in strange places and such, she'll be quite disleased!!

It's just like anything else, ya gots to use it the way it was designed. It's almost the same as when somone takes a pill that was specifically designed to be swallowed and uses it sublingually. Each specific medicine has a dosage determined by how it is designed to be taken. (Just for example), Premarin in a 1.25mg pill is meant to be swallowed. The same amount of hormone in a patch is 1/30 the strength of the pill, due to the absorbtion rate of the skin. If you took the pill sublingually, you'd be getting a terrificly high dose of the hormone, due to the different absorbtion rate of medicine taken under the tongue. (provided you had the patience to keep it there for 3-4 hours). We all need to be careful about how we use what we do use. Be respectful of the time and effort that goes into developing all these things, and patient enough to use them correctly. As always, I welcome any corrections, I'm no MD. Patti

[On The Fence]

On The Fence, My first advice to you would be to use the product as advised. The producer web site specifically says "apply to shoulders and upper arms that will be covered by a t-shirt". I suspect that this is not only because those area are primarily made up of muscles, but also to avoid contact by others, such as your spouse. Such contact will cause undesireable changes to her! I don't know what your current "breast" situation is, but if you're like a lot of older men, you may have some "male breast" tissue already. If so, be aware that it is not muscle, but rather, is mostly fat. Fat, from what I've seen, is a hormone magnet. Once it grabs a hormone, it ain't lettin"go!! That's the big reason many creams and patches, as well as injections, are recommended for muscle zones, so the body can absorb them properly. I have the Androderm 4mg patches, and nowhere in the product info sheet does it mention breast growth or even tenderness as a side effect. It could be that your chest is not providing proper absorbtion, keeping it all locally, and causing an irritation or some similar effect due to improper use. Talk to your doctor, and be honest with him and tell him you haven't been following his directions, and get his opinion. If you don't want to tell him you've been doing it wrong, at least start doing it right, and see what happens then.

This stuff is potent!! If you are using it regularly, (and correctly) you should note changes quite rapidly!! I sure did!! I quit using them because they gave me skin irritation that took forever to go away, as well as my wife wasn't exactly thrilled with my increase in libido!! If you continue using it, be respectful of your wife and prevent any contact between her and the gell, even after dried. Hell, I wouldn't even let her be around when it was open so she could breathe the stuff!! When she starts growing hair in strange places and such, she'll be quite disleased!!

It's just like anything else, ya gots to use it the way it was designed. It's almost the same as when somone takes a pill that was specifically designed to be swallowed and uses it sublingually. Each specific medicine has a dosage determined by how it is designed to be taken. (Just for example), Premarin in a 1.25mg pill is meant to be swallowed. The same amount of hormone in a patch is 1/30 the strength of the pill, due to the absorbtion rate of the skin. If you took the pill sublingually, you'd be getting a terrificly high dose of the hormone, due to the different absorbtion rate of medicine taken under the tongue. (provided you had the patience to keep it there for 3-4 hours). We all need to be careful about how we use what we do use. Be respectful of the time and effort that goes into developing all these things, and patient enough to use them correctly. As always, I welcome any corrections, I'm no MD. Patti

Thank you Patti and Flamesabers. I agree with both of you and will follow the directions. I am always respectful and never have any contact with the gel on. That would be a crappy thing to do. I am over weight and now on a diet and working cardio and some machines at a gym. I'm 5'4 was 212 3 weeks ago and now down to 196 with a goal of 160. I did have some breast tissue before i started but they are bigger and my nipples are puffed out. All my excess weight is in my mid-section and that was one of the reasons I had my T checked. It was 200 and now around 400. I am very sexually active and would like to continue. I probably should just stop the T as it does have a lot of bad side effects as mentioned. Are either of you able to have intercourse? Do you still have a sex drive? Both of you are young, so if no sex drive, don't you go crazy? How does the wife / girlfriend deal it? Sorry, so many questions. Does the PM bring on calm where it is normal not to want sex? I like sex too much to let the erections go but I think my wife would welcome not being hounded for sex so if PM makes the urge go away and makes you feel good at the same time, then doesn't that make more sense then using T? Half my stress is wanting and not getting. Looking at it now, I am trying to have it all but I don't need the health risks or I won't have any of it. Thanks for the wake-up. I am doing dumb things.
Thank you again for all the great advice and I appreciate the feedback. Right now i feel a little confused and lost. What a great forum!

[flamesabers]

I am very sexually active and would like to continue. I probably should just stop the T as it does have a lot of bad side effects as mentioned. Are either of you able to have intercourse? Do you still have a sex drive?

Sexual functionality is still possible for me, but it has declined significantly since I started NBE. The same applies for my sex drive. I would describe me sex drive as being in a hibernating/docile state.

Both of you are young, so if no sex drive, don't you go crazy?

No, I don't go crazy having a non-existent sex-drive. On the contrary, I find it very nice not being preoccupied with porn and masturbation. I feel like I have a lot more self-control now. I don't have to deal anymore with involuntary or morning erections. It's like having one less distraction in my life.

How does the wife / girlfriend deal it?

I'm single so I don't have to deal with this. I don't want to have kids. When I do get into a relationship I prefer having a girlfriend who is more into cuddling than sex.

Does the PM bring on calm where it is normal not to want sex?

For me, yes. It really depends on the person though. If you're like the average male who loves having sex and would like your significant other to have a higher sex drive, pm can have the exact opposite effect on you. Instead of feeling calm, you may feel anxious, frustrated, even depressed as pm reduces your sex drive and functionality.

I like sex too much to let the erections go but I think my wife would welcome not being hounded for sex so if PM makes the urge go away and makes you feel good at the same time, then doesn't that make more sense then using T? Half my stress is wanting and not getting.

Here's a hypothetical question for you. What would be a more preferable scenario for you: your sex drive declines to the level that matches your wife's sex drive, or her sex drive goes up to the level your sex drive is currently at? In other words, do you wish you could have sex with your wife more often, or would you rather be happy with having sex only as often as your wife wants it? Even though pm may lower your sex drive, that doesn't necessarily mean you'll be happy with having a weaker sex drive.  

[On The Fence]

flamesabers wrote
Sexual functionality is still possible for me, but it has declined significantly since I started NBE. The same applies for my sex drive. I would describe me sex drive as being in a hibernating/docile state.

on the fence wrote
Once you get to where you want to be, can you stop taking PM and other herbs and will your drive then come out of "hibernation"?

flamesabers wrote
No, I don't go crazy having a non-existent sex-drive. On the contrary, I find it very nice not being preoccupied with porn and masturbation. I feel like I have a lot more self-control now. I don't have to deal anymore with involuntary or morning erections. It's like having one less distraction in my life.

Does the PM bring on calm where it is normal not to want sex?

flamesabers wrote
For me, yes. It really depends on the person though. If you're like the average male who loves having sex and would like your significant other to have a higher sex drive, pm can have the exact opposite effect on you. Instead of feeling calm, you may feel anxious, frustrated, even depressed as pm reduces your sex drive and functionality.
On the fence wrote
My hope would be if the drive is not there then the frustration would go away.

I like sex too much to let the erections go but I think my wife would welcome not being hounded for sex so if PM makes the urge go away and makes you feel good at the same time, then doesn't that make more sense then using T? Half my stress is wanting and not getting.

flamesabers wrote
Here's a hypothetical question for you. What would be a more preferable scenario for you: your sex drive declines to the level that matches your wife's sex drive, or her sex drive goes up to the level your sex drive is currently at? In other words, do you wish you could have sex with your wife more often, or would you rather be happy with having sex only as often as your wife wants it? Even though pm may lower your sex drive, that doesn't necessarily mean you'll be happy with having a weaker sex drive.  

on the fence wrote
Good question. I realize a hypothetical question but the reality is my wife's drive will never go up. She never goes to a doctor for anything. We are close to retirement so we need to be together to survive so to speak. I would be happier at this point not wanting sex. I think we would become closer as a couple without the pressure for sex. If your drive is gone, am i right to say you don't think about sex often? If that's the case, where do i go from here? I just want to be relaxed and happier. Life is too short. This is my second marriage and sorry to say my first wife was even worse, she never wanted sex. I was in my early 20's then, it was horrible to be so deprived and a constant battle. (really unrelated, just whining), sorry. More relaxed and happier is my goal and breast would be something i've wanted and would welcome. Thank you for your help.

I did something wrong, I didn't reply right.

[flamesabers]

Once you get to where you want to be, can you stop taking PM and other herbs and will your drive then come out of "hibernation"?

It can go either way. It depends on how long you've been taking pm and to what extent pm has already affected your functionality. Everyone's different so there is no precise timetable for when this occurs. Some members go cold-turkey with pm for a few days every month to maintain functionality. If you do a search on this forum you can find other methods members use to maintain functionality.

My hope would be if the drive is not there then the frustration would go away.

This may not work out the way you want it. Consider this, a side-effect of some prescribed medication is a loss of sex drive. Even with no sex drive, people can still be frustrated and unhappy that they have lost their interest in sex. It's certainly one reason why some people stop taking their prescribed medication. Can you envision there may be a time when your wife is in the mood for sex but you're not because of the hormonal changes brought about by NBE?

If your drive is gone, am i right to say you don't think about sex often?

That's correct, I don't think about sex often. The caveat to this is I don't miss my sex drive or the urges and sensations that accompanied it. When I decided on doing NBE, I knew a loss of sex drive and functionality was certainly a possibility. I didn't think I would go crazy from losing my sex drive. I anticipated I would be calm and feel more in control of myself with the dissolution of my sex drive.

If that's the case, where do i go from here? I just want to be relaxed and happier. Life is too short. This is my second marriage and sorry to say my first wife was even worse, she never wanted sex. I was in my early 20's then, it was horrible to be so deprived and a constant battle. (really unrelated, just whining), sorry. More relaxed and happier is my goal and breast would be something i've wanted and would welcome. Thank you for your help.

I think the question to ask yourself before starting NBE is 'why do you want to have breasts?' Besides the physical effects to contemplate such as the loss of sex drive, there's also the mental and social considerations to think about. You say you have a girly side, but what that does that mean exactly? Does it mean you sometimes desire to transition? Does it mean you enjoy crossdressing but otherwise like living as a male? Does it mean you feel your gender identity is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes of having a male or female gender identity?

As far as social considerations go is your wife aware of your girly side? How do you think she would react to your decision to grow breasts? Do you have any children/grandchildren? If so, how do you think they would respond once your breast development becomes obvious? Have you thought about the potential difficulties of swimming in public or spending time in public locker rooms when you have feminine breasts? You're not looking to wear a bra, but what if your development gets to the point that not wearing a bra is uncomfortable or attracts too much unwanted attention?

The reason why I think there's a lot to consider before starting NBE is once you've grown breast tissue, it's permanent. You can only get rid of it through surgery. I think one only needs to look through the gynecomastia message boards to find out about the shame, embarrassment and even self-loathing some males experience because they've developed feminine breasts. It would be quite unfortunate I think for anyone to undergo the challenges of NBE only to regret growing breasts in the end.

[chrishoney]

I have the Androderm 4mg patches, and nowhere in the product info sheet does it mention breast growth or even tenderness as a side effect.

Puffy nipples and gynecomastia are well known side effect of taking anabolic steroids such as testosterone or it's analogs. In the body building community, they are called "bitch tits". Some body builders not willing to give up steroid use, opt for surgery to "correct" their puffy nipples/gynecomastia. This happens because the endocrine system has feedback mechanisms that attempt to maintain testosterone within certain limits--too little and the testes are signaled to produce more, too much and they get the signal to produce less, way too much and excess testosterone is aromatized into estradiol which causes the gynecomastia.

It could be that your chest is not providing proper absorbtion, keeping it all locally, and causing an irritation or some similar effect due to improper use.

Sorry Patti, but absorption in specific areas just does not happen as you described it. Fat tissue does tend to act as a reservoir for certain types of substances such as fat soluble anesthetics and steroids. But it does NOT hold on and not let go Applying it to the chest and arms would not impede it's distribution throughout the rest of the body, at least not in any substantial way. This is mainly due to the abundant capillary beds in the dermis which any topically applied drug must first pass through before reaching underlying tissue, i.e. breast tissue.

The main issue as I see it, which I hope the OP's doctor discussed with him, is that use of exogenous testosterone will completely (and eventually permanently) shut down your testes. The testes will stop producing any testosterone since the feedback system detects enough from the androgel. This happens in chronic steroid use by bodybuilders and any man using testosterone cream for a long enough period. One of the side effects of steroid abuse is testicular atrophy. Basically, once you start using Androgel, you will be using it for the rest of your life, if you want the effects of testosterone.

Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

[chrishoney]

There are two points I think are being overlooked in this discussion:

1.) On the Fence had a low enough T level to warrant prescription of Androgel by his MD, yet his "sex drive" remained high enough to be a concern. For many taking PM, the feeling of being out of control and "needing" to achieve ejaculation is what disappears most quickly. I'm pretty sure there are long term users on this forum that still have sexual relations with their wives, despite no longer feeling the compulsive need to watch porn and/or masturbate.

2.) Arousal is in your mind. Again the OP had low T but high arousal rates. Transwomen who have had SRS or just bilateral orchiectomy continue to feel arousal and even have sex. Some eunuchs continue to feel arousal and are able to have sex. (check out the boards at eunuch.org if you don't believe me, or conversely susans.org)

Also the men that experience dissatisfaction with decreased sex drive as a result of medication are feeling anxiety for other reasons probably having more to to with self esteem, or if they have a partner, with performance anxiety regarding not being "man enough". This is a gross generalization, but men tend to think that sexual relations revolve around them getting off, and if they can't, then they aren't men.

These to me are entirely different issues than what we are feeling as the direct result of taking PM and having less "sex drive". Once that need is gone, you don't go crazy. I don't feel like I'm not me, but I also don't go crazy trying to resist the compulsion to masturbate once or twice or more times per day!

[sfem]

My wife has never been driven sexually. Wait, that came out wrong. I mean it has never seemed like it was very important to her. We have children, so rest assured she doesn't avoid it. She just isn't very motivated by it and has always been that way. My sex drive was always high my whole life prior to regular PM use. My T was very low before starting NBE. I have no way of knowing if it was that way throughout my life, but I would guess it has always been low. PM over time seems to have brought my desire for sex more in line with my my wife's inclinations, so that has worked out rather well for us. I am one of those who goes cold turkey occasionally for weeks at a time. When I do, my sex drive comes right back (lust distractions, porn, masturbation, crossdressing for stimulation, etc.). I personally feel I am better off with a lot less sex drive. I get no anxiety on PM. I have significant sexual frustration off it. Your mileage may vary.