[Mandy88]

Hello people. It's been a while since I was here, I am sorry about that, I appreciate the friendly people here! I am doing fine and I hope you all are too. I want to share a little update and I have questions.

No PM for about 2 months, since I decided I wanted to see what that was like. Trans-feelings still there. Without PM I have tended toward my old ways of isolation, depression and a touch of OCD, progressively as my T-levels have increased, I imagine. Yesterday after a particularly bad week, I decided to try PM again and see. Still being carefull though.

Now to the "funny" part. I have as of now taken 500 mg total; 250 mg day one, at night, and 250 mg the next night. I have not been able to sleep tonight. I don't know if it is placebo but I don't think so, I clearly recognize this. I think the PM is having an effect on my skin already, but the big thing is mental. I can think clearly about important stuff in my life, I feel very energized, almost like it is having a stimulant-like effect on me, I have also noticed I relax in my face-muscles and body as a whole. This hit me a couple of hours ago.
I feel like I just stepped out of some kind of smoky bubble where I had been residing for the last couple of months. It is similar to the feelings I tried to describe in the first post of this thread, only not as shocking and overwhelming as then.

Is it normal for the body to be hyper sensitive to this stuff even after 2 months off?

Have anyone experienced something similar? Thoughts, comments?

Hugs to you all :-)

[bryony]

Gosh, I didn't know you get them as small as 250mg! I'm nowhere near that sensitive.... I need around 1-3g /day to keep my head straight.

B.

PS if you are getting PM in those small quantities, I suspect you may be paying a lot of money. You may want to investigate Ainterolherbs.com, where I get mine.

[Lenneth]

Gosh, I didn't know you get them as small as 250mg! I'm nowhere near that sensitive.... I need around 1-3g /day to keep my head straight.

B.

PS if you are getting PM in those small quantities, I suspect you may be paying a lot of money. You may want to investigate Ainterolherbs.com, where I get mine.

Yes, the cost difference in buying the bulk PM powder and using a capsule machine to fill your own (size "0" packed full = 500mg FYI) is well worth it.

[Mandy88]

Well regarding the cost for me it is fine since I need such a small amount.

I think PM throws me into estrogen dominance for some reason, probably there is some anomaly with my hormone levels from before. I have been reading about estrogen dominance and I do experience quite a few of the symptoms listed. These symptoms occurred originally after 1000 mg /day for 1 month. Since then every time I have tried PM the symptoms have occurred quicker and quicker, first an initial boost of well being and vanishing OCD, then symptoms such as sinus congestion, Cold hands and feet, Depression with anxiety or agitation, Dry eyes, Abdomen seeming bloated, Fatigue, Foggy thinking, Headaches, Insomnia, Memory loss, Mood swings and an upset stomach.

What do you think? Since my first encounter with PM my estrogen levels could be still abnormally high? Please note that 250mg x 2 caused all these symptoms for me now in just 2 days, plus the smooth skin and sensitive, erect nipples.

As a solution I am thinking about progesterone cream, maybe it can work, if indeed it is estrogen dominance causing this?

[dargona]

Well regarding the cost for me it is fine since I need such a small amount.

I think PM throws me into estrogen dominance for some reason, probably there is some anomaly with my hormone levels from before. I have been reading about estrogen dominance and I do experience quite a few of the symptoms listed. These symptoms occurred originally after 1000 mg /day for 1 month. Since then every time I have tried PM the symptoms have occurred quicker and quicker, first an initial boost of well being and vanishing OCD, then symptoms such as sinus congestion, Cold hands and feet, Depression with anxiety or agitation, Dry eyes, Abdomen seeming bloated, Fatigue, Foggy thinking, Headaches, Insomnia, Memory loss, Mood swings and an upset stomach.

What do you think? Since my first encounter with PM my estrogen levels could be still abnormally high? Please note that 250mg x 2 caused all these symptoms for me now in just 2 days, plus the smooth skin and sensitive, erect nipples.

As a solution I am thinking about progesterone cream, maybe it can work, if indeed it is estrogen dominance causing this?

I have also been increasingly more prone to estro dominance symptoms while taking PM (500-1000mg), to the point where I questioned myself many times if it was really worth it. I haven't taken PM now for at least a month or more.. but I started making herbal tea again (it's been a long time.. but I use fenugreek, fennel, red clover, and a touch of saw palmetto and mix it in with my oatmeal shea butter lotion by st ives -- there is probably a much better choice but this is what I have)

For now I am taking it slow and doing more "physical" labor with my breast (re)growth compared to popping a cap (I'm not judging cap poppers). I am noticing tingles and soreness although it's nowhere near as frequent as it was over a year ago on 1000-6000mg of PM... but it's something and that's good enough for me for right now given that the side effects (nasty ones) aren't here. I'm going to try and monitor how this goes for a while (I also use a noogleberry when I think to or can) and maybe introduce other stuff and pay close attention to how it effects my body.

But herbal massage seems to be working well.. and certain mind set awareness and exploring with that contributes to something physical whether it's insignificant or not -- it's better than nothing.

I also massaged before on high doses of PM, although there were many times where I could skip massaging altogether while PM did it's job .. then again I was taking ridiculously high doses at the time too and had the most shocking event in my life happen where I couldn't remember how to speak my native language or put thoughts into words/sentences or remember people's names, and creeping numbness electrifying my body distorting my vision entirely. I don't want to selectively put myself through that ever again.. even though I do desire large firm breasts. There is a certain level of body consciousness that comes along with it.. which from that event I figured out and experienced and has drastically shaped the person I am today.

[flamesabers]

What do you think? Since my first encounter with PM my estrogen levels could be still abnormally high? Please note that 250mg x 2 caused all these symptoms for me now in just 2 days, plus the smooth skin and sensitive, erect nipples.

As a solution I am thinking about progesterone cream, maybe it can work, if indeed it is estrogen dominance causing this?

Hello Mandy.

I think you're correct about pm putting you into estrogen dominance. As Byrony mentioned, perhaps you're very sensitive to pm, rather than the cause being you happen to be taking pm whilst having abnormally high estrogen levels.

As far as resolving the unpleasant side-effects I think it's possible over time you may become acclimated to the mental effects pm has on you and thus are able to sleep normally again. I do think using progesterone cream would be a good idea for minimizing the physical symptoms you're experiencing.

As far as your pm dosage goes, I think what matters most is whether you're getting the physical and mental effects you desire without incurring any unpleasant side-effects. If 250 mg or 500 mg of pm is all you need, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It's possible over time you may build up a tolerance to pm and have to increase your dosage. Until that happens, I say take the dosage that works for you and give progesterone cream a try with resolving your physical symptoms.

[Mandy88]

Thank you for your thoughts and input!

I also massaged before on high doses of PM, although there were many times where I could skip massaging altogether while PM did it's job .. then again I was taking ridiculously high doses at the time too and had the most shocking event in my life happen where I couldn't remember how to speak my native language or put thoughts into words/sentences or remember people's names, and creeping numbness electrifying my body distorting my vision entirely. I don't want to selectively put myself through that ever again.. even though I do desire large firm breasts. There is a certain level of body consciousness that comes along with it.. which from that event I figured out and experienced and has drastically shaped the person I am today.

That does sound like a horrible experience, I certainly hope it didn't last for very long, and that you have recovered properly. Though it is funny you should mention an experience like that, I can relate to a feeling of having a unusually difficult time forming sentences and well, transforming thought to speech in a effective manner. Also the distorted vision. Nothing extreme though but something in that direction I have definitely noticed and thought about, as a side effect of PM that is. If you would like to share more about this and how you resolved it I would like to hear.

Hello Mandy.

I think you're correct about pm putting you into estrogen dominance. As Byrony mentioned, perhaps you're very sensitive to pm, rather than the cause being you happen to be taking pm whilst having abnormally high estrogen levels.

As far as resolving the unpleasant side-effects I think it's possible over time you may become acclimated to the mental effects pm has on you and thus are able to sleep normally again. I do think using progesterone cream would be a good idea for minimizing the physical symptoms you're experiencing.

As far as your pm dosage goes, I think what matters most is whether you're getting the physical and mental effects you desire without incurring any unpleasant side-effects. If 250 mg or 500 mg of pm is all you need, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It's possible over time you may build up a tolerance to pm and have to increase your dosage. Until that happens, I say take the dosage that works for you and give progesterone cream a try with resolving your physical symptoms.

Hi.
I used this thread do diagnose myself yesterday http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=5135 And yes it seems very likely that it is estrogen dominance.. Hmm, regarding tolerance it seems that my tolerance for PM has gone way down since when I first tried it for a month in October. If anything I need an even smaller dose, to get the good effects and avoid the bad ones. This time around they occurred almost instantly, couldn't stand it, and had to stop after 500 mg total Today and yesterday I have felt much better, like if the hormone levels are a bit more balanced; positive physical effects remaining and only a little dizziness

I have ordered progesterone cream, I have read that you can apply it to wrists and thighs for good absorption. I will try this without PM and see if I feel any different, then I maybe try one 250 mg dose of PM together with using the cream and see how that works out for me. If you have more suggestions or comments I would very much like to hear them!

Thank you. /Mandy

[flamesabers]

I have ordered progesterone cream, I have read that you can apply it to wrists and thighs for good absorption. I will try this without PM and see if I feel any different, then I maybe try one 250 mg dose of PM together with using the cream and see how that works out for me. If you have more suggestions or comments I would very much like to hear them!

Thank you. /Mandy

When you get your progesterone cream, I recommend using a measuring spoon to ensure you're using the same amount for each application.

Here's a link that may be of some use to you:

http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=13041&highlight=teaspoon

I use 1/4 teaspoon of progesterone cream twice a day, three weeks out of every month. I'm not sure how much progesterone cream is an ideal amount for you, since you're taking a lot less pm than I am.

[Mandy88]

Thank you Flamesabers for the advice! I will try 1/8 of a teaspoon daily for a little while before I start PM again, I want to build up my levels a little, then maybe up the P to 1/4 of a teaspoon if needed with the PM. I just want to get rid of the E-dominance symptoms, fingers crossed this will help . (I measure the dose with the help of a little dot on the tube that represents 1/16 of a teaspoon..)

[Misty0732]

I also massaged before on high doses of PM, although there were many times where I could skip massaging altogether while PM did it's job .. then again I was taking ridiculously high doses at the time too and had the most shocking event in my life happen where I couldn't remember how to speak my native language or put thoughts into words/sentences or remember people's names, and creeping numbness electrifying my body distorting my vision entirely.

Whoa, Dargona! That sounds more serious than estrogen dominance. And the fact that symptoms seem to start now on much lower PM more likely indicates a possible issue with your liver.

The fact that you were taking such large doses at one time also supports that theory. It is possible for the liver to build up a toxicity to substances that it has to process (that toxicity is called "chemical hepatitis"). It's the same mechanism that causes liver issues for habitual alcoholics and can eventually lead to cirrhosis of the liver.

I have seen this before, not with PM but with niacin (which is just vitamin B3). Some people use niacin to help lower cholesterol. It does work, but too much (2000 to 3000 mg/day) over time and the liver develops the toxicity, which in turn leads to the elevated enzymes and symptoms like memory loss, disorientation, dizziness, and slurred speech. Once the toxicity develops even much lower doses brings the symptoms on. The toxicity appears to be permanent, unfortunately.

I'm only mentioning this because the damage can be fatal if the warnings aren't heeded. The good news is the liver is very resilient and so long as one refrains from ingesting the substance the chances are good you will not suffer any other permanent issues. If you keep taking it, though, and if it is your liver, you will probably find yourself on a transplant list.

There is a fairly simple way to be sure. Take some PM in the evening (not enough to cause severe symptoms) and then have your blood tested in the morning. Specifically ask for liver enzymes. This is a VERY common test these day as some people have this problem with the popular statin drugs (like Lipitor).

I truly hope that's NOT it, but the symptoms you describe go way beyond the normal complaints around e-dominance.

Best,

Misty