Hey all,

I started taking 500mg PM 2x per day morning and evening just three days ago and suddenly today, about 2.5 hours after taking my morning dose (first dose taken with 320mg SP AND PM), I got a stabbing pain in my right kidney area. It was so painful, I had to park my vehicle and recline the seat for about 30 minutes while it settled to a tolerable level. It could have been a muscle strain from lifting something heavy about 60 seconds before the pain set in or muscle fatigue from 9 hours of snow removal yesterday but my hunch is that it has something to do with the PM. I suppose I'm hypersensitive to any physical response or pain right now but it drove me to search "Kidney" in our forum and there I found this thread:

http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10220&highlight=kidney

I thought it was especially strange that Bryony (the OP) sited RIGHT side kidney pain as well. He was taking 3x the dose and for 2 weeks longer when it happened to him. He adjusted his dose and spread out the intake but I’m only taking one pill per dose morning and evening so I can’t really change that. With the low dose and very short time I’ve been taking it, I haven't had any symptoms other than some very slight nipple tingling on the first day about 5 hours after the morning dose which could have easily been just a coincidence. I wasn’t expecting anything good or bad at this low dose.

In response, I’m going to increase my fluid intake (especially water) today as that is always the first recommendation for kidney ailments. Strangely, in the last hour, I’ve had to go pee three times despite not even drinking anything yet – very strange for me. I want to push a little and take two more doses (tonight and tomorrow morning - probably without SP) to see if it’s just a coincidence. By-the-way, I’ve never had kidney problems in all my 42 years and there is no history in my family either. Could I be THAT sensitive to PM? I haven't used any of the lesser potent breast herbs before so maybe even 1000mg PM is a shock to my system. Any thoughts on any of this?

When do you take your evening dose of pm? I believe Byrony has suggested not taking pm after 8:00 p.m. If you're very sensitive to pm, maybe you'll have to take your second pm capsule in the late afternoon or sometime instead of in the evening. If that doesn't work, something else you could try is applying progesterone cream to the problematic area. Progesterone cream has helped I think with relieving my lower back pain, but then I've been taking a much higher dose of pm for a longer duration of time.

When do you take your evening dose of pm? I believe Byrony has suggested not taking pm after 8:00 p.m. If you're very sensitive to pm, maybe you'll have to take your second pm capsule in the late afternoon or sometime instead of in the evening. If that doesn't work, something else you could try is applying progesterone cream to the problematic area. Progesterone cream has helped I think with relieving my lower back pain, but then I've been taking a much higher dose of pm for a longer duration of time.

I thought the evening dose, if taken too late, could cause back pain during the night. My pain came during the day, 2.5 hours after my morning dose. Do you still think my evening dose had something to do with it? I took it at 9PM and went to bed immediately after. I plan to continue taking it just before I go to sleep unless it causes pain during the night.

When do you take your evening dose of pm? I believe Byrony has suggested not taking pm after 8:00 p.m. If you're very sensitive to pm, maybe you'll have to take your second pm capsule in the late afternoon or sometime instead of in the evening. If that doesn't work, something else you could try is applying progesterone cream to the problematic area. Progesterone cream has helped I think with relieving my lower back pain, but then I've been taking a much higher dose of pm for a longer duration of time.

I thought the evening dose, if taken too late, could cause back pain during the night. My pain came during the day, 2.5 hours after my morning dose. Do you still think my evening dose had something to do with it? I took it at 9PM and went to bed immediately after. I plan to continue taking it just before I go to sleep unless it causes pain during the night.

Hi,

I strongly recommend doing as Flamesabers mentioned, and only taking one pill at a time. I've found that taking two 3-4 hours apart is no different in effect to taking 2 together. I've also found that one pill lasts me about 3 hours before the beneficial mental effects tail off, so I'm assuming that I take that long to metabolise one.

Next, I strongly recommend lots of water, as you say. I drink at least a litre and a half during the working day.

That being said, I think it would also be worthwhile doing what I did and have a week's cold turkey to clean it out of your system before experimenting.

It may well be, as you suspect, that you are throwing something new at your body and it needs a gradual ramp up to adapt.... I can take a far higher dose now than I used to, though I still avoid late nights.

Good luck!

B.

When do you take your evening dose of pm? I believe Byrony has suggested not taking pm after 8:00 p.m. If you're very sensitive to pm, maybe you'll have to take your second pm capsule in the late afternoon or sometime instead of in the evening. If that doesn't work, something else you could try is applying progesterone cream to the problematic area. Progesterone cream has helped I think with relieving my lower back pain, but then I've been taking a much higher dose of pm for a longer duration of time.

I thought the evening dose, if taken too late, could cause back pain during the night. My pain came during the day, 2.5 hours after my morning dose. Do you still think my evening dose had something to do with it? I took it at 9PM and went to bed immediately after. I plan to continue taking it just before I go to sleep unless it causes pain during the night.

Hi,

I strongly recommend doing as Flamesabers mentioned, and only taking one pill at a time. I've found that taking two 3-4 hours apart is no different in effect to taking 2 together. I've also found that one pill lasts me about 3 hours before the beneficial mental effects tail off, so I'm assuming that I take that long to metabolise one.

Doodlebug is already taking only one pill at a time. My suggestion was to take the evening capsule earlier in the day so that when he goes to bed, he would have already metabolized the second capsule.

I do agree drinking more water and perhaps even going cold turkey may help determine whether pm is the culprit of your kidney pain.

I still don't feel too well but the kidney pain from this morning is getting better. Equal to it is muscle aches from yesterday and a sore throat foretelling a cold I think. I thought about it all afternoon and decided to stop taking PM for a couple days. (remember, I've only taken it for 3 days so far) I'll probably start again on Saturday morning with ONE 500mg per day for a week and see how it goes. Then go to (2) 500mg doses daily on the following Saturday and beyond. ...I guess that's the recommended procedure anyway isn't it? I think I was thinking I'd eventually need to get north of 2000mg daily so instead of starting at 500mg daily and ramping up 500mg each week, I decided to start at 1000 and work up. Now I'm regretting that decision. However on the bright side, it feels like my kidney went up a cup size or two

I'm going to work on drinking more water - something I know I don't get enough of regardless of any herbs I take and I'll give more thought to a late afternoon dosing instead of before bed.

I still don't feel too well but the kidney pain from this morning is getting better. Equal to it is muscle aches from yesterday and a sore throat foretelling a cold I think. I thought about it all afternoon and decided to stop taking PM for a couple days. (remember, I've only taken it for 3 days so far) I'll probably start again on Saturday morning with ONE 500mg per day for a week and see how it goes. Then go to (2) 500mg doses daily on the following Saturday and beyond. ...I guess that's the recommended procedure anyway isn't it? I think I was thinking I'd eventually need to get north of 2000mg daily so instead of starting at 500mg daily and ramping up 500mg each week, I decided to start at 1000 and work up. Now I'm regretting that decision. However on the bright side, it feels like my kidney went up a cup size or two

I'm going to work on drinking more water - something I know I don't get enough of regardless of any herbs I take and I'll give more thought to a late afternoon dosing instead of before bed.

I know the Ainterol bottle says for menopausal women to take one in the morning and one at bedtime. Some people can tolerate a bedtime dose and some cannot. I take one capsule in the morning and one before supper. I'm still ramping up. I seem to be having problems with bowel intolerance at this higher dose. So far, no kidney issues, which is good. Based on another thread where I asked Bryony about bedtimes, it would seem a general rule is to not take PM any later than 3-4 hours before bed.

Have you considered adding FG? It is actually effective for digestive issues and makes a difference in my IBS. Taking even a single FG (500mg) a day is enough for me to get relief. And it is not something that will negatively impact your NBE efforts in my experience. I take it together with the PM. It could be that is why I don't really have any issues with my bowel from PM, or maybe it just doesn't affect me that way. If you are worried about your kidneys, let your doc know that you are concerned about pain in that area and peeing more than usual. A prostate check or a blood test to check kidney/urinary health might be in order. If you do have a problem developing you really want to know about it as early in life as possible. I suppose it's possible that PM is simply raising the flag on a latent issue in your body. If so, that would be very interesting to know.

Have you considered adding FG? It is actually effective for digestive issues and makes a difference in my IBS. Taking even a single FG (500mg) a day is enough for me to get relief. And it is not something that will negatively impact your NBE efforts in my experience. I take it together with the PM.

I'm definitely going to look into that. I've been taking Pantoprazole for acid reflux but it has very much improved my IBS as well. I think it causes less acid to go into my lower GI and thereby reduces irritation to my bowels but I've been omitting the Pantoprazole when taking PM because I have a thing about eating spoonfuls of pills. I'll probably have to take Pantoprazole for the reflux, AND FG for added bowel soothing but wouldn't it be great if FG could replace Pantoprazole all together? I'd be elated.

If you are worried about your kidneys... I suppose it's possible that PM is simply raising the flag on a latent issue in your body. If so, that would be very interesting to know.

Oh, don't say that ...That's been a nagging thought in the back of my mind for the last 24 hours. What if there are some underlying kidney problems that PM is highlighting? What a story that would be.

Thanks much sfem

The thing that sorted my IBS out was giving up wheat as part of a low carb lifestyle.

It wasn't until afterwards that I realised just how bad modern wheat is. See "Wheat Belly" by William Davis, MD. I've been reading it and it is an eye opener. (Did you know that hybrids of wheat increase their chromosomes to include both parents?)

If you aren't overweight and cannot bear to give up bread, at least consider using ancient varieties: Eikorn, Emmer, Kamut and Spelt are all available. (That's in order of age, I think).

Also, if you must have bread, get a bread machine and one of those wheat varieties.

Better still, give up wheat like I did... I'm sure you will benefit.

B.