This isn't meant to be any kind of put-down, just erring on the side of safety.

Yeah, what he said--erring on the side of safety. Hopefully, those of us who seem like we know what we are talking about will always take that approach on this forum.

Well said, sir.

This isn't meant to be any kind of put-down, just erring on the side of safety.

Yeah, what he said--erring on the side of safety. Hopefully, those of us who seem like we know what we are talking about will always take that approach on this forum.

Well said, sir.

Thanks. You're not such a bad old stick.

B.

PS http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/stick_2
Def. 12

I am very grateful for the thoughtful and wise comments of this thread. I also review the yahoo group TS Do it Yourself Hormones for additional thoughtful discussions.

What has struck me as an important question, that fits this thread, is the relative risk and benefit of NBE versus bio-identical topical creams and gels. Specifically, the relative risk and benefit of concentrated liquid extract PM administered sublingually versus estriol USP or estradiol USP administered as a topical cream or gel?

PM as described is obviously proven relatively safe and makes NBE attractive, but the benefit is highly varied between individuals' program and sensitivity. By going with concentrated liquid extract and subligual admin, the benefit should be maximized (and I quickly became accustomed to the flavor).

Bio-identical estrogen is clearly very potent without qualification, but the risk is highly varied. Does going with a non-prescription topical cream or gel mitigate much of the risk without sacrificing too much potency?
see ready-to-deliver legal non-prescription estriol USP (E3) and estradiol (E2) cream on amazon:
****Estrogen/Estriol (Bioidentical) Paraben Free & Fragrance Free Cream 2 oz. Bottle - Measured Pump by Natural Radiance (1.25 ml = 1 mg Estriol USP)
****Estro500 Bio-Identical Estriol/Estradiol Body Moisture Cream 1 Bottle (For Menopause, Hot Flashes, Night Sweats). by Natural Living (# NEW! - Formulation contains 80% estriol, 20% estradiol; # Two pumps of Estro500 equivalent to .500 mg of Premarin)

Clearly since these are legal non-prescription topicals of E3 and/or E2, then safety is implied? Even though the E3/E2 is absorbed through the skin into the blood stream and eventually to the liver, no serious risk should be assumed?

If topical E3/E2 is relatively safe and more potent than PM or at least more consistent, then does that not reduce the desire for NBE?

Your thoughts?
Sylvia

I am very grateful for the thoughtful and wise comments of this thread. I also review the yahoo group TS Do it Yourself Hormones for additional thoughtful discussions.

What has struck me as an important question, that fits this thread, is the relative risk and benefit of NBE versus bio-identical topical creams and gels. Specifically, the relative risk and benefit of concentrated liquid extract PM administered sublingually versus estriol USP or estradiol USP administered as a topical cream or gel?

PM as described is obviously proven relatively safe and makes NBE attractive, but the benefit is highly varied between individuals' program and sensitivity. By going with concentrated liquid extract and subligual admin, the benefit should be maximized (and I quickly became accustomed to the flavor).

Bio-identical estrogen is clearly very potent without qualification, but the risk is highly varied. Does going with a non-prescription topical cream or gel mitigate much of the risk without sacrificing too much potency?
see ready-to-deliver legal non-prescription estriol USP (E3) and estradiol (E2) cream on amazon:
****Estrogen/Estriol (Bioidentical) Paraben Free & Fragrance Free Cream 2 oz. Bottle - Measured Pump by Natural Radiance (1.25 ml = 1 mg Estriol USP)
****Estro500 Bio-Identical Estriol/Estradiol Body Moisture Cream 1 Bottle (For Menopause, Hot Flashes, Night Sweats). by Natural Living (# NEW! - Formulation contains 80% estriol, 20% estradiol; # Two pumps of Estro500 equivalent to .500 mg of Premarin)

Clearly since these are legal non-prescription topicals of E3 and/or E2, then safety is implied? Even though the E3/E2 is absorbed through the skin into the blood stream and eventually to the liver, no serious risk should be assumed?

If topical E3/E2 is relatively safe and more potent than PM or at least more consistent, then does that not reduce the desire for NBE?

Your thoughts?
Sylvia

I think you should be asking this question on the yahoo group TS Do it Yourself Hormones ... they will have more experience.

Bryony

Thank you for your quick reply about topical estrogen. I was thinking that the discussion was as valid for the DIY group as for NBE. Just as you raised the question of progesterone cream and estrogen dominance...

Hi Sylvia,

not much point sending me a personal message if you have disabled receiving replies! I don't think it matters if I copy it here.

If you go back through this thread "about assessing the risks", you'll see that I feel quite strongly about minimising risk. I think the stronger estrogens are much more likely to risk breast cancers and DVT than PM which is (a) a plant hormone bioidentical with estriol, the weakest, and (b) PM has research to show that it actually protects against breast cancer. It should have come across that I am doubtful about the need for progesterone, which is not available as a herbal product anyway.

My comment stands: the TS DIY Hormone people will have much more experience in this area. People who come to an NBE group are more likely to be risk averse.

B.