[MissC]

and that plumbing is all fully functioning enough to cause serious breast growth like you're describing, you could be in danger, and they WILL fix it if you want them to.

I'm not broken, thanks.

Either make you all male, all female, or figure out a way to allow you to keep both safely.

Considering that intersex conditions are chromosomal in nature, I'm curious as to how this would be possible. Unless you're referring to outward appearance -- in which case you're talking about plastic surgery.

Contrary to popular belief in these gender-bending circles, plastic surgery does not change one's sex. That's just one more fantasy in a world already rife with it.

And if you choose to try to keep both safely, they may even want to study you, which would mean you wouldn't even have to pay them much if anything and they might even pay you for the privilege.

Oh goody! To be a lab rat! You're just full of good ideas!

Of course... if you're both BS'ing us... GTFO.

Well, I'm not trying to pass off a picture of what are clearly watermelon-sized jugs, belonging to a woman who has used them to feed babies, as my own. And, "Of course, at the time, I never really noticed what was going on" my arse. Those are not the words of someone who grew up different from his peers. Those are the words of reading too much stupid TG fiction.

I have lived with it... from a time when the preferred method of dealing with bullies was to punch them, rather than whine to "authorities". This "boy with boobs" learned to fight, got strong working for a living, and became a pretty thick-skinned SOB who really doesn't give a crap what you think of him.

[AbiDrew85]

OK, MissC... if you just want to put your head up your ass then be my guest.

Christian might be BSing, or might not be... I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove they don't deserve it.

If you identify entirely as male, that's fine, you should still consider getting a closer look at your insides done.

But you've indicated that you identify as female.

If you have functioning ovaries hidden away in there they could cause you all kinds of problems if things are just left as-is.

And yes, generally, chromosomes ARE involved somehow, and even more likely actually even further down the chain the chromosomes themselves might all be there in correct number and whatever but have a defect... But yes, it's usually CAUSED by chromosomal anomalies of some kind... But there are many ways in which these anomalies can present themselves and one of those ways is to have partially functioning mixed genitalia. Or even fully functioning.

And this ISN'T fiction. This is real. And you COULD be a real case of it. Or you could already know exactly what's caused you to grow serious mammaries even before supplements. PAIS maybe? That's the least potentially harmful. It'd HAVE to be partial, or you wouldn't have been born with a penis.

Another potentially harmless cause could be a sexual chimera - your breasts are XX while the rest of you is XY. Or some other combination just so it allows for you to have a penis and breasts... This could potentially be dangerous though.

Anything else I can come up with would be pretty dangerous no matter what.

And don't even try telling me these examples don't exist. Look them up if you don't believe me. I don't live in a fantasy world. My world is VERY PAINFULLY REAL THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I'm not a boy at all but the world would insist I should be. And the worst part is, I have no evidence that there's anything else to it other than just my body being plain WRONG.

[ABChristianDEFG]

I am certainly not lying about anything. I'm actually a little offended over the accusation. I'd be happy to prove it, if you'd let me know how.

[sfem]

I'm with MissC on his/her stance. Not broken. Unless I misread MissC's posts, s/he is genitally male, but has breasts, some of the current size of which may be attributable to some herbal help. That makes this a straightforward example of gyno. Gyno is very common, although it doesn't typically last and doesn't appear to grow breasts to large matured sizes and shapes. That alone tells me that it isn't an indicator of serious health problems, since gyno itself isn't physically harmful in any way other than indirectly from related physical altercations. I wouldn't feel any need to see a doctor, medical or otherwise, just because my body had the building blocks for breasts and they didn't require me to proactively activate them. Perhaps if that had happened to me when I was young, I would feel differently. But that would be a social concern, not a health concern. My adult son has significant breasts that look like about stage 2 but with very male nipples and I know for a fact he has done nothing intentional to spur their growth (yes he is overweight by probably 40 pounds or so). They have been slowly developing on him over the last 2 years or so. Mentally, he is all male to the best of my ability to recognize. There is nothing herbal in his diet.
This is also not a new or even recent phenomenon. Evidence for it has existed for over 2,000 years. Don't try to tell me that all the statues, frescoes, sculptures and art related to the Hermaphroditus myths had no physical observations to germinate the stories. Those objects and images are all far too realistic and properly proportioned to be pure fantasy or speculation. Fantasy in particular rarely is proportioned realistically as has been noted elsewhere. And those objects and images are only some of the best known European examples of knowledge of men with breasts, or at the very least examples of hermaphrodites. Eastern ancient cultures also have with examples, most notably incorporated into sculptures of groups as well as individuals.
Functioning ovaries? In a body with only male genitals? You're going to have to offer some kind of reference to this occurring for me to buy it. A non-exhaustive search didn't turn up anything for me. It would be a rather sensational item to report, so I don't imagine it would take an exhaustive search to find references if it was for real. If you have any such references, I honestly would like to see them. It would certainly be another very interesting bit of knowledge to add to our view of what occurs out there. I'm not talking about intersex or hermaphrodite individuals with both sets of genitals, either fully developed or not. People know if they are male or female genitally.

[AbiDrew85]

I NEVER said they were "broken". Never. But at the same time no way are c/d cups pure gyno. Unless you're massively obese. Especially if there's feminine development to them and they aren't moobish. If you can pass them off as feminine, there's something going on that's not just gyno.

Functioning ovaries? In a body with only male genitals? You're going to have to offer some kind of reference to this occurring for me to buy it. A non-exhaustive search didn't turn up anything for me. It would be a rather sensational item to report, so I don't imagine it would take an exhaustive search to find references if it was for real. If you have any such references, I honestly would like to see them. It would certainly be another very interesting bit of knowledge to add to our view of what occurs out there. I'm not talking about intersex or hermaphrodite individuals with both sets of genitals, either fully developed or not. People know if they are male or female genitally.

Intersex is EXACTLY what I'm suggesting. And no. There have been cases where someone appeared to be born male and later started developing female when they hit puberty. In many cases with no where for the blood to go they end up rupturing something and having severe internal bleeding. In other cases it can go unnoticed for far longer because somehow their body is able to reabsorb all the material without causing severe undue harm.

It still isn't doing anything good to their systems.

The two cases I suggested in particular WOULD NOT involve the existance of ovaries, well, the later could, potentially, but unlikely if they have descended testes.

In fact, even in cases of full AIS, the "girls" never do develop internal female organs... they just don't develop external male ones and are left with a vagina but no uterus or ovaries or anything else. They still have testes, but they never descend, and all the androgens they produce get aromatized because their cellular structures don't respond to androgens. At all. At puberty they develop female secondary characteristics but usually not to any great degree.

Partial forms of AIS can take on many physical manifestations depending on what area and what receptors and... yeah. It gets complicated.

There are situations in which an individual CAN have fully functioning one set, partially another, or fully functioning both, but I'm not sure if I've only read those as hypotheticals or if they've actually occurred and I don't have time to look right now, as I should be getting ready for school.

Usually though the "male organs" never actually function. The "testes" never descends (which on further examination often turns out to be underdeveloped ovaries). And they develop female characteristics. Unless someone starts pumping them full of steroids to "keep them a boy". Then they often still develop a lot of female characteristics, but they also develop male ones, and usually DO end up damaged. Both physically and mentally/emotionally... Yet they still do this...

I do know though that there's definite scientific material that says that it is POSSIBLE for a human to develop true hermaphroditic organs.

The unfortunate reality is that even today they are still letting parents decide without asking the individual what they want or feel when any sort of IS presents itself. And these people are constantly being lied to and shoved into gender roles they don't belong in. Often starting as soon as they are born.

My parents weren't any of these though, I do know that... but that only makes recent events in my life all that much more confusing.

[Elisaustin]

Just the fact that taking a herb growing in a far off land can make a male feel female inside with the side benefit of growing breasts is pretty amazing
in its self at least to me. I would not have believed 2 years ago it was possible. So I give Christian the benefit of the doubt.
I am not a doctor so as far as the reason for such growth is beyond me.
But if we could figure it out and bottle it we would become very wealthy.
I for one am quite content having breasts and a penis.
The he side does not seem to mind and the she side is happy.

[MissC]

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove they don't deserve it.

As clearly evidenced by your "GTFO" comment in your very first reply to me.

If you identify entirely as male, that's fine, you should still consider getting a closer look at your insides done.

But you've indicated that you identify as female.

I've done no such thing. I said I dress female and present one -- as in, appear outwardly to be. My clothes come from the ladies' department. I have long hair. I wear jewelry and makeup sometimes. I am not female, and do not 'identify' myself as such. If there was an "other" option, that's what my driver's license would say instead of M.

And this ISN'T fiction. This is real. And you COULD be a real case of it.

Maybe you should slow down, and re-read what I wrote. It should be pretty obvious that I did not relate intersex to fiction. You're taking my words out of order, out of context, and jumping to conclusions.

Or you could already know exactly what's caused you to grow serious mammaries even before supplements.

I think you're under some misconception as to what bra sizes mean. Cup size is not static; it is relative to band size. The volume of a 40B is the same as the volume of a 38C, 36D, 34DD... and so on. A 36D is a mere handful.

And don't even try telling me these examples don't exist. Look them up if you don't believe me.

On the contrary, I have probably done more reading on intersex than you have. I'm pretty sure I didn't even slightly hint that it doesn't exist. I'm not sure why you're working so hard to take offense at comments that were not aimed at you.

I'm not a boy at all but the world would insist I should be. And the worst part is, I have no evidence that there's anything else to it other than just my body being plain WRONG.

This is the part that always gets me. Always they say, "my body is the wrong body", never "my brain is the wrong brain"! Why is that?

You think the world insists on something from you. It will if you let it... but perhaps you could learn something from me. If you want to be a girl, be a girl. But if you were born XY, you'll die XY; and no amount of money, pills, surgery, or wishful thinking will change that. You can, however, change your outlook, your viewpoint, your attitude, your mind.

I just don't understand where you're coming from. First you tell me I'm broken and that I need some sort of medical intervention. I'm healthy and fit. I backpack and ski, and the only reason I have been to a doctor in the last 15 years is for FAA-mandated physicals. But you just assume there's something wrong with me.

Then, when I dish you back a bit of sarcasm for it, now you're a victim.

[TibetanPrincess]

"I've done no such thing. I said I dress female and present one -- as in, appear outwardly to be. My clothes come from the ladies' department. I have long hair. I wear jewelry and makeup sometimes. I am not female, and do not 'identify' myself as such. If there was an "other" option, that's what my driver's license would say instead of M."


Dressing female- check
presenting as one- check
being comfortable with it- check

Most straight women would consider you as identifying some part of yourself as female (though you may not own it in the mental sense as you are clarifying in the "genetic inbetween the legs sense" which are two different things) and with the natural breasts you are comfortable with, says you are also comfortable with that biological female characteristic within you.

So a man who identifies himself as straight, yet sleeps with men on occasion is straight?
Like a one who claims they are vegan but eats eggs.

We all recognize what's between your legs identifies you as male and as you said, nothing changes that, you're right. Till death do you depart from it. What it is, is your femininity in your actions that identifies you as more feminine. Do you at all see it this way?

Its the blending of your genetic gender and biological female characteristics as well as your feminine actions of expression that produce this "other" effect of how you see yourself. We understand that. Its neither black nor white. Their is such a big gray area.

It just seems you don't want to own it as in identifying with both genders. Is identifying as both male and female that different from "Other?"

Or is "other" some type of special gender that is so rare and it only happens to 1% of the population amongst the male, female and intersexed?

Are you not at all attracted to males nor females? If not, then I can see one identifying themselves as "other."

[SarahSchilling]

How did I know this thread would become a clusterfuck? lol

I voted option 5 and option 4. I don't feel the need to explain myself though ;p

You're not going to understand unless you are of a similiar mindset, and if you are, you already understand perfectly hehe....and I'm fine with either outcome. So, it'd be a waste of my time and yours.

[MonikaT]

How did I know this thread would become a clusterfuck? lol

Sooner or later, don't they all?