I posted this originally in timarie's thread but on further reflection felt it belongs here as well. After all I've put much else of my research findings on various subjects related to what I'm doing in this thread.

Indeed. The ONLY optional nutrient is any carb other than fiber. YOU NEED some fat. YOU NEED lots of protein.

The problem with avoiding saturated fats is that it's often a very major fat in animal sources... And you need a small amount of animal fats. The GOOD omega 3's are only found in animal fat. ALA can be gotten from plant fat, but you only convert up to somewhere around 10% of that to EPA or DHA. And it's EPA and DHA that your body needs. So if your goal is to lose weight, you NEED animal fats. Otherwise you'll need to eat ridiculous amounts of plant fats to compensate for that horrible conversion rate.

But yes. You do want to avoid as much saturated fat as you can while still meeting your requirements for omega 6 and omega 3. Saturated fat serves no major purpose in our body besides a source of energy and raw materials to manufacture certain enzymes. If you get enough omega 3 and omega 6 from dietary sources you will get plenty of saturated.

Most of your fat intake should be omega 6 though, and those are found mainly in plants. So you should ALSO eat fatty plants...

Yes. Humans are OBLIGATE omnivores. Just like cats are obligate carnivores. Cats can't produce ANY of their required nutrients from lesser plant based sources, they have to eat already synthesized ones from another animal.

We were designed by nature to be omnivores. I know all the vegans are going to yell at me for that, but it's the reality. They aren't healthy being vegan. It's still their choice though...

Our bodies require a minimum of around 50 grams of protein and 10 grams of fat each day. Of that around a quarter of it needs to be animal source.

In addition to the above, the information I have found indicates that fiber needs scale based on caloric intake DIRECTLY, but can also vary between individuals. Putting a precise number on what you will NEED regarding fiber would be difficult, it's something you'd have to experiment on. A good rule of thumb though is to get at least 20-25 grams of fiber for every thousand calories. You'll know if you're getting enough and you'll know if you're getting too much. Our bodies are VERY good at telling us our fiber needs, lol.

Though, if you're meeting your vitamin needs through diet alone then you are DEFINITELY going to get enough fiber. Every single experimental modeling I've done has agreed on that point.

I know this is really belated, but, in response to your most recent photos: WOW! Your controlled catabolism diet is really working on helping trim down your abdomen! Your hourglass shape is becoming even more noticeable than before, too. Your goals are in closer reach, and your doing a great job and reaping great progress! So proud of you!!! Keep it up, Abi!! You look great

PS-- about the fiber, I read that somewhere too (about that you should have so much depending on how many calories you intake), but never actually sat down to do the math. I just became almost preoccupied with fiber as I am with protein. Doing the math now, I get AT LEAST 65 grams of fiber every day. That seems like a lot, but I think I need it because of all the protein I eat. So, I believe that more or less is needed depending on what foods make up those calories, of course. Learning from the past, protein can stop you up a bit!

I know this is really belated, but, in response to your most recent photos: WOW! Your controlled catabolism diet is really working on helping trim down your abdomen! Your hourglass shape is becoming even more noticeable than before, too. Your goals are in closer reach, and your doing a great job and reaping great progress! So proud of you!!! Keep it up, Abi!! You look great

Thanks! I'm actually going to go on a break from it for a little while and maintain maybe gain back slightly. I think it's time to think about starting building but I will need a barbell, dumbbells, and a set of weights. My targets for building will be entirely in that area. Tucking in the waist and toning and defining it slightly and building up the hips and butt. But especially the hips.

What I find amazing is that even seeing me and watching me succeed at this NO ONE in my family believes it can be done. STILL. I'm living breathing proof right before their eyes and they aren't seeing it happen. To them I just look like a dumb suicidal anorexic x.x

PS-- about the fiber, I read that somewhere too (about that you should have so much depending on how many calories you intake), but never actually sat down to do the math. I just became almost preoccupied with fiber as I am with protein. Doing the math now, I get AT LEAST 65 grams of fiber every day. That seems like a lot, but I think I need it because of all the protein I eat. So, I believe that more or less is needed depending on what foods make up those calories, of course. Learning from the past, protein can stop you up a bit!

Yeah. That actually does make a lot of sense. More sense than the official numbers.

We've gotta bear in mind that official numbers ARE based on the presumption that proteins are a minority not a majority of caloric intake. Which just seems ridiculous to me. If it's proteins and fats and fiber that we need, then we should be sticking to a quarter animal source and three quarters fatty plants with very high protein and fiber and folate. And when you follow those kinds of rules, everything else falls into place almost magically without much effort, including caloric needs, and very very little carbs, most of them fiber.

I don't know WHY the USDA and almost all nutritionists continue to push a high carb diet when even the USDA itself is forced to admit deep in their own documents that carbs serve no other purpose but as energy. And then with the problems carbs can cause in a diet, especially among certain genetic lines... It becomes quite damned obvious humans were never intended to be primarily grass eaters like the USDA would like us to think.

I've been seeing a lot of talk about butt shapes lately... Now I'm curious... what kind of butt shape would you girls say I have right now?

I think it kinda looks like a bubble maybe? It's certainly a fairly big butt really and pops out the back of my side profile quite a bit... But I just don't see any real shape to it from a rear profile?

I've been seeing a lot of talk about butt shapes lately... Now I'm curious... what kind of butt shape would you girls say I have right now?

I think it kinda looks like a bubble maybe? It's certainly a fairly big butt really and pops out the back of my side profile quite a bit... But I just don't see any real shape to it from a rear profile?

Haha! I did notice your butt, actually You can usually make that call based on a combination of a view from the back and from the side. So, if you want some feedback on the forum about that, perhaps post a shot from the back, too? I know that is almost impossible when you take the photos of yourself all the time... I know that is why I don't have any shots of my back...

I've been seeing a lot of talk about butt shapes lately... Now I'm curious... what kind of butt shape would you girls say I have right now?

I think it kinda looks like a bubble maybe? It's certainly a fairly big butt really and pops out the back of my side profile quite a bit... But I just don't see any real shape to it from a rear profile?

Haha! I did notice your butt, actually You can usually make that call based on a combination of a view from the back and from the side. So, if you want some feedback on the forum about that, perhaps post a shot from the back, too? I know that is almost impossible when you take the photos of yourself all the time... I know that is why I don't have any shots of my back...

That's part of what makes having a full size mirror on your dresser soooo convenient! lol. The trick had been getting myself elevated enough to get my entire rear profile to fit in the mirror.

Well... See the attached thumbnail.

Attached Files

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Wow! Quite nice! Imagine when u reach your goal! I'd say you have a bubble right now. But that could possibly change with time. You may have a combo of a bubble/ heart. You are a combo body type so you just never know!

I've been seeing a lot of talk about butt shapes lately... Now I'm curious... what kind of butt shape would you girls say I have right now?

I think it kinda looks like a bubble maybe? It's certainly a fairly big butt really and pops out the back of my side profile quite a bit... But I just don't see any real shape to it from a rear profile?

Haha! I did notice your butt, actually You can usually make that call based on a combination of a view from the back and from the side. So, if you want some feedback on the forum about that, perhaps post a shot from the back, too? I know that is almost impossible when you take the photos of yourself all the time... I know that is why I don't have any shots of my back...

That's part of what makes having a full size mirror on your dresser soooo convenient! lol. The trick had been getting myself elevated enough to get my entire rear profile to fit in the mirror.

Well... See the attached thumbnail.

That's part of what makes having a full size mirror on your dresser soooo convenient! lol. The trick had been getting myself elevated enough to get my entire rear profile to fit in the mirror.

Well... See the attached thumbnail.

Lucky! I wish I had a full sized mirror on my dresser, lol.

Anyways, there are more than just the two butt shapes mentioned so far. Here is something to look off of:

To be straight with you, looking at the photo from the side profile and from the back, you look like you have something along the lines of a squircle (may be what Tibetan meant when she said a combo of bubble/heart?). Which, I will add, is a nice butt shape and certainly better than most, especially since you have not been working out!! Also, especially considering your biological makeup. Most men have square shaped butts or "V" shaped butts. Yours is quite a bit more rounded than the average male derriere. Heck, quite a lot of women even have square and "V" shaped butts! You have a good bit of "meat" back there, a little "cheeky" going on, and you have a lot to work with. You said that you plan on working out soon, right? This will round out your bottom even more from the back view (if that is what you want), and any glute exercises will round out and lift your butt even more from the side view. And anytime you add mass to your backside, the "cheekier" it will get. You have a quite a cute, soft, non-masculine-looking butt... as Tibetan said, really quite nice!

To be straight with you, looking at the photo from the side profile and from the back, you look like you have something along the lines of a squircle (may be what Tibetan meant when she said a combo of bubble/heart?). Which, I will add, is a nice butt shape and certainly better than most, especially since you have not been working out!! Also, especially considering your biological makeup. Most men have square shaped butts or "V" shaped butts. Yours is quite a bit more rounded than the average male derriere. Heck, quite a lot of women even have square and "V" shaped butts! You have a good bit of "meat" back there, a little "cheeky" going on, and you have a lot to work with. You said that you plan on working out soon, right? This will round out your bottom even more from the back view (if that is what you want), and any glute exercises will round out and lift your butt even more from the side view. And anytime you add mass to your backside, the "cheekier" it will get. You have a quite a cute, soft, non-masculine-looking butt... as Tibetan said, really quite nice!

From those images I'd say squircle's about right too!

The workouts I want to do when I can should certainly be able to convert it into a bubble or heart. More likely a bubble. It's already pretty sizable just lacks "perkiness" and definition. And I hope to futher tone and define my waist and expand my hips significantly.

And thanks! Biologically my body actually says lots of conflicting things in all sorts of little ways... Obviously two very big ways scream male but... all sorts of little ways leaves LOTS of room for "wait, this really is a male you say"?

OK... Something else very strange just happened. I could've sworn that my underbust couldn't possibly get any tinier, yet I just measured again because my 32 band bras weren't digging in any longer... They're actually getting really quite comfy and at first I suspected I needed new bras... And I probably do cuz the underwires are starting to dig in... Which tells me it's time to go up a cup... But the loss of elasticity I thought was happening? Apparently not.

It's VERY VERY strange but I seem to have lost some more underbust. It's now literally like 31.5" or 80 cm.

My shoulders are still just as big though so I actually need to go up a cup size and down a band size on my end goal size. 32DD! Yikes!