I stopped taking SP a few months ago, on the reasoning that, if my T level was near zero, my DHT level must also be near zero, and therefore I didn’t need it. Recently I was reminded that SP was an NBE herb for women long before it began to be taken by men for BPH. This led me to some further research into SP, from which I am forced to the conclusion that no one really knows for certain how SP does what it does, assuming that it does it. Just a couple of links illustrative of this are:
www.aaronsworld.com/Bastyr/Class%20Notes/Bot%20Med/Bot%20med%20III/Serenoa_repens.pdf
and
www.drugs.com/npp/saw-palmetto.html
The diagram on page 7 of the first link I find particularly interesting. Since it appears not to be a significant source of phytoestrogens, or anything likely to interfere significantly with PM, my query is whether there is likely to be any benefit to my taking it (I have about 3 months supply of 320mg extract capsules so there is no extra expense)? If one of its properties is to assist in the utilisation of estrogen does this also apply to phytoestrogens? Is some of the effectivenes of SP in alleviating LUTS due to an antimuscarinic effect reducing overactive bladder symptoms?
www.aaronsworld.com/Bastyr/Class%20Notes/Bot%20Med/Bot%20med%20III/Serenoa_repens.pdf
and
www.drugs.com/npp/saw-palmetto.html
The diagram on page 7 of the first link I find particularly interesting. Since it appears not to be a significant source of phytoestrogens, or anything likely to interfere significantly with PM, my query is whether there is likely to be any benefit to my taking it (I have about 3 months supply of 320mg extract capsules so there is no extra expense)? If one of its properties is to assist in the utilisation of estrogen does this also apply to phytoestrogens? Is some of the effectivenes of SP in alleviating LUTS due to an antimuscarinic effect reducing overactive bladder symptoms?
This post was last modified: 04-12-2013, 04:55 PM by AnnieBL.
(04-12-2013, 04:51 PM)AnnabelP Wrote: I stopped taking SP a few months ago, on the reasoning that, if my T level was near zero, my DHT level must also be near zero, and therefore I didn’t need it. Recently I was reminded that SP was an NBE herb for women long before it began to be taken by men for BPH. This led me to some further research into SP, from which I am forced to the conclusion that no one really knows for certain how SP does what it does, assuming that it does it. Just a couple of links illustrative of this are:
www.aaronsworld.com/Bastyr/Class%20Notes/Bot%20Med/Bot%20med%20III/Serenoa_repens.pdf
and
www.drugs.com/npp/saw-palmetto.html
The diagram on page 7 of the first link I find particularly interesting. Since it appears not to be a significant source of phytoestrogens, or anything likely to interfere significantly with PM, my query is whether there is likely to be any benefit to my taking it (I have about 3 months supply of 320mg extract capsules so there is no extra expense)? If one of its properties is to assist in the utilisation of estrogen does this also apply to phytoestrogens? Is some of the effectivenes of SP in alleviating LUTS due to an antimuscarinic effect reducing overactive bladder symptoms?
Phytoestrogens have nothing to due with SP's effect on your breasts. It's primary effect is to discourage the conversion of testosterone (T) to DHT (the more potent form of the androgen). Males and females both produce all of the androgens and estrogens, the only difference between us is that the female plumbing produces more estrogen than T. The hormone cycle in both males and females has a lot of dependencies and feedback loops. By inhibiting the conversion of T to DHT you (as a male) end up with more free estrogens (due to conversion by aromatase) and less strong androgens (DHT).
The danger (and benefit) of this approach is that you are messing with the hormone cycle by inhibiting one of it's feedback loops. LH is what tells the testicles to produce T, it is released by the pituitary gland in the brain. When you have high levels of free estrogen, it releases less LH which means you release less T, eventually causing low overall hormone levels and shrinkage where you may not want it. (your testicles)
Thank you very much for your reply. I'm sorry to have been so long getting back to this, but I've had other things on my mind.
While SP is generally supposed to act as a 5AR inhibitor, and has been shown to do so in vitro, it is not clear what component of this complex herb is responsible, and its effectiveness in vivo as a 5AR inhibitor has been questioned, it being theorized that its effectiveness in protecying the prostate from DHT depends more on its preventing DHT from binding to receptors in the prostate than from preventing conversion of T to DHT. This could explain why it does not like Proscar lower PSA scores nor reduce overall DHT levels. If this is correct, then it would also not effect DHT levels in women. It is alleged to improve the response to estrogen in some manner (how?).. Some say that the effective constituent in SP is beta-sitosterol, but there is only a small amount of it in SP, much less than found in many other foods and supplements. Those that say that beta-sitosterol is three hundred times more powerful than SP are merely saying that a typical dose of BS contains 300 time as much BS as does SP. There is also the question of whether SP has any effect on the sphincter connecting the bladder to the urethra since impaired function of this sphincter can produce symptoms similar to those due to an enlarged prostate constricting the portion of the urethra within the prostate. Such impaired function may be caused by bladder stones or spasm of the detrusor muscle lining the bladder caused by other factors. In actual fact I have begun to suspect that SP actually reduces the effectiveness of the oxybutynin I am taking for overactive bladder so I am stopping taking it for now, particularly since I get a significant amount of BS in other ways.
For better or worse (i begin to think better) my testicles and penis are already severely atrophied to a degree such that I can't believe that SP could make any noticeable change in my long non-existent male function. My real interest was in whether in such circumstances it had any place as an adjunct to phytoestrogens in in my NBE program.
While SP is generally supposed to act as a 5AR inhibitor, and has been shown to do so in vitro, it is not clear what component of this complex herb is responsible, and its effectiveness in vivo as a 5AR inhibitor has been questioned, it being theorized that its effectiveness in protecying the prostate from DHT depends more on its preventing DHT from binding to receptors in the prostate than from preventing conversion of T to DHT. This could explain why it does not like Proscar lower PSA scores nor reduce overall DHT levels. If this is correct, then it would also not effect DHT levels in women. It is alleged to improve the response to estrogen in some manner (how?).. Some say that the effective constituent in SP is beta-sitosterol, but there is only a small amount of it in SP, much less than found in many other foods and supplements. Those that say that beta-sitosterol is three hundred times more powerful than SP are merely saying that a typical dose of BS contains 300 time as much BS as does SP. There is also the question of whether SP has any effect on the sphincter connecting the bladder to the urethra since impaired function of this sphincter can produce symptoms similar to those due to an enlarged prostate constricting the portion of the urethra within the prostate. Such impaired function may be caused by bladder stones or spasm of the detrusor muscle lining the bladder caused by other factors. In actual fact I have begun to suspect that SP actually reduces the effectiveness of the oxybutynin I am taking for overactive bladder so I am stopping taking it for now, particularly since I get a significant amount of BS in other ways.
For better or worse (i begin to think better) my testicles and penis are already severely atrophied to a degree such that I can't believe that SP could make any noticeable change in my long non-existent male function. My real interest was in whether in such circumstances it had any place as an adjunct to phytoestrogens in in my NBE program.
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