[Miranda-nata-est]

Giving up on PM and all of this for now.

So why? I hear you all cry - or may be not.

I am going to type this and hit send without re-reading and editing, so please just get this as it comes....

Just so confused by everything that is going on in my head.

I am suffering severe depressive symptoms like I've not experienced for many, many years - since quitting PM 4 days ago, these moods have lightened. It was like there were two people in my head - nothing I had ever experienced before - nothing to do with gender polarity, just real undefinable conflict creating a pressure in my head which felt like it was ready to explode.

Since quitting PM again, this has to some extent, over the last few days, alleviated.

Why am I doing this to myself I cry ... I am not, as far as I know, a female in the wings - I am right as a male so why was I playing around with this ... God knows!! (I trust Him actually)).


I cannot keep logging in here - I am doing so three four five times a day, scouring the new messages for hints and clues. which might be germane to my situation - yet -to keep being here is to be part of a reality which I am not sure is my reality.

JulieTG was speaking much of what I was thinking - how to marry up a desire - be it real or imagined real, to be a male with breasts. Mymoobs also seemed to realise the same things that I have been considering - what happens to these pert desires boobs in twenty years time?

Anyway - nuff wittering ... will monitor this for a day or two and may comment - but else am probably going to rejoin the 'normal' world - just wish I knew what the normal world was - you know what, I really really really really wish I knew what the normal world was - it is tricky being an outsider.

Love and a Happy New Year

David

[GoneGirl]

David, this may be very good news for you. Try this out...

One of the motivations for administering HRT to the gender conflicted during professional therapy is that it serves as a diagnostic aid. If the gender dysphoria is relieved with HRT, it usually indicates or confirms a transgender psyche. If the result is the worsening of one's mental state, it often means that one's gender identity, for the most part, matches one's assigned sex.

I think phyto-estrogens play a similar role, and, in your case, they are telling you that there is nothing to be gained by trying to feminize your body. It could create a greater mismatch between your body and brain, leading to more mental discomfort.

There may be more to it than that, of course, but I think your backing off is the best course under the circumstances.

CK

[Miranda-nata-est]

Thank you CK ...

Not sure I have gender dysphoria or if I have any gender issues (does the very fact I am here suggest I do??????) - I have certainly never felt any gender identification issues although I guess I have always been in a way keen to be seen as a male with emotions .... I have always felt this to be a position of male identity rather than a female trait.

The more I consider it, the harder it gets to define male from female - initially it is obvious and I am sure that the majority of folk in the world never get beyond stage one reasoning!!!

Years ago I remember seeing the Kinsey scale which suggests there are few people who are 100% oriented to the opposite sex - I suspect that within all of us, there is a similar divergence when it comes to our own innate sexuality.

Sorry Doodlebug if this offends - it is- I feel, seriously relevant.


Cheers

David

[Lotus]

Good luck davidb,

You can subscribe to the thread and receive email updates when something new is posted, FYI.


Sorry it didn't work out!

L

[MonikaT]

David, it certainly sounds as though PM isn't for you. The info about using hormones as a diagnostic aid can be found, among other places, in the writings of Dr. Ann Vitale (www.avitale.com).

As for being a male with emotions, that is a problem in our screwed-up society. Despite the fact that crying and tears are caused by androgens, or so I've heard, there are only two or three times men are allowed to cry--when kicked in the groin, the death of a close loved one, and maybe when his expensive sports car gets badly damaged by someone else. Even women who claim they want a sensitive guy tend to draw the line at crying. I'm not sure why crying is seen as a sign of weakness when it is largely an uncontrollable response to pain or profound sadness.

[GoneGirl]

Thank you CK ...

Not sure I have gender dysphoria or if I have any gender issues (does the very fact I am here suggest I do??????) - I have certainly never felt any gender identification issues although I guess I have always been in a way keen to be seen as a male with emotions .... I have always felt this to be a position of male identity rather than a female trait.

Gender dysphoria is probably the wrong characterization for many of us here at BN. I've never experienced the extreme, debilitating, mental anguish that is often associated with transsexuals. But, as you alluded to, very few of us are 100% male or female in our gender makeup. Thank god for that, I say.

Personally, I've concluded that I'm somewhere in the middle, and I have for most of my life suppressed the female side of my nature. That had consequences for my overall mental well-being that was dis-empowering in certain ways, but not unmanageable. It didn't prevent me from achieving most of my life goals. It did take a toll, to a degree, on my sense of self worth.

Being emotional by nature is not a gender restricted attribute. It's a personality characteristic which can be dampened or amplified by the presence of estrogen or testosterone, respectively. Society may frown on men who express emotions which are viewed as more characteristic of women, like crying, but have no problem accept other emotions, such as anger or jealousy.

I would not pursue NBE unless you are reasonably sure that is right for you. When I started taking PM daily, I experienced a significant improvement in my overall contentedness which reflected in my daily life in several positive ways. I still feel like a man for the most part, but now there are times when my inner woman takes hold and expresses herself, as well. My male side is not threatened by that. I've come to accept both sides, and I'm working on blending the two into a single every day expression of who I am, with respect for what society is prepared to accept.

If it turns out that you do have a female component to your gender identity, I've come to believe that it's better to give it some room to live. I don't believe it's possible to ignore it - as much as one might try. It's important to accept all of who you are if you are to achieve peace and comfort in your being.

I had a boss who complained I talked too much. Does that make me more a woman than a man? Nah, it's just my personality.

CK

[flamesabers]

David,

I'm sorry to hear things aren't working out for you. When you're feeling better off of pm than on it, I think you're making the right choice to discontinue pm for at least the time being.

Please feel free to come back to the forum if you ever feel you need support or advice regarding NBE or gender identity.

[Marina Kits]

Sorry Doodlebug if this offends - it is- I feel, seriously relevant.

I'm not sure what I said that would make you think I find this offensive. On the contrary, it's seems very appropriate to discuss it. I'm truly sorry you're having such a hard time right now. I think we've all had moments like you are experiencing. Sadly, I don't have anything profound to share with you other than to say I think you're on the right track. If being here doesn't feel right and PM, to the best of your assessment, is causing the depression, than by all means, you should follow your gut. I'm sure you'll be missed but I completely understand and encourage you to look out for yourself first. ...You can always come back if you feel the time is right or the need is confirmed. Best wishes David.

Doodlebug