[Lotus]

An androgen antagonist (anti-androgen) can broadly be defined as any compound that has the biological effect of blocking or suppressing the action of male sex hormones such as testosterone within the human body. DHT blocks the conversion of aromatase (bad for breast growth).
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Reishi-reishi mushrooms significantly reduced levels of 5-alpha reductase, preventing conversion of testosterone into the more potent DHT. High levels of DHT are a risk factor for conditions such as benign prostatatic hypertrophy (BPH), acne, and baldness.

White Peony--Estrogenic, blocks 5ar and pro-aromatase - Strong.
A compound found in white peony inhibits the production of testosterone and promotes the activity of aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen.

Spearmint-anti-androgenic properties reduce the level of free testosterone in the blood, while leaving total testosterone and DHEAS unaffected.


Green Tea Epigallocatechin-Green tea (camellia)-Reduce's the conversion of free testosterone into DHT and also raises SHBG (sex-hormone-binding-globulin).


Pygeum-include phytosterols that inhibit the production of dht. Pygeum also reduce's prolacting levels and block the accumulation of cholesterol in the prostate. Prolactin increase's the uptake of testosterone by the prostate. Pygeum reduces the levels of DHT in the blood and reduces the number of sites where the dht can attach.


Saw palmetto-Saw palmetto-Beta-sitosterol is a natural alpha-adrenergic receptor blocker. Prevents DHT from accumulating in prostate tissue that would otherwise cause excessive cell growth and inflammation. The plant steroids in saw palmetto also act on progesterone receptors, an action that causes a reduction in estrogen levels.


DIM is Diindolylmethane-It is an anti carcinogen and also improves estrogen metabolism. Plant-derived 3,3′-Diindolylmethane Is a Strong Androgen Antagonist in Human Prostate Cancer Cells* DIM is remarkably similar in conformational geometry and surface charge distribution to an established synthetic AR antagonist, Taken with estrogen agonist, activities of DIM are seen as an hormone disrupter. DIM is the first example of a pure androgen receptor antagonist from plants.


Nettle Root--Binds to SHBG (hormone that binds to excess hormones by decreasing hormone levels), and decreases 5ar and aromatase. Taking this tends to increase estrogen and testosterone. Would need to be taken with a pro-aromatase, and maybe estrogen.


Chinese Skullcap Inhibits the 5alpha-reductase enzyme-
Baicalein has been shown to inhibit the 5alpha-reductase enzyme, which converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is strongly associated with the development of prostate enlargement (benign prostatic hyperplasia) and prostate cancer. As such, baicalein is reported to be potentially useful for the prevention and/or treatment of androgen-dependent (testosterone-driven) disorders, including prostate enlargement and prostate cancer.


Licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra)-Anti-androgenic and activates alpha and beta estrogen receptors and blocks 5-ar - Strong, but take in moderation!
Use with extreme caution

-For most disorders: Take 200 mg standardized extract in pill form three times a day, or 20 to 45 drops, three times a day, of a 1:5 tincture. (The 1:5 tincture represents one part herb is soaked in five parts liquid


Pumpkin Seed Oil: Has been demonstrated to inhibit DHT formation through the inhibitory effect on 5-alpha-reductase activity. Pumpkin seed oil breaks down DHT via the liver.


Emu Oil: Research has shown that emu oil contains a high level of linolenic acid which further research has shown to be an efficient antiandrogen. Linolenic acid is a potent 5 alpha reductase inhibitor and may be usefull in the treatment of disorders related to the hormone Dihydrotestosterone. Linolenic Acid has been suggested to be of use in the disorders such as benign prostratic hyperplasma, acne androgenetic alopecia and hirsuitism.


Even though it's not an AA it's worth mentioning because of its interaction.

L-Lysine: While L-Lysine is NOT a DHT blocker, it may make DHT blockers more effective. Researchers have found that adding a supplementation of L-Lysine can make drugs like Propecia more effective. Since propecia is a DHT inhibitor, as all the natural products mentioned here, the addition of a L-Lysine supplement can make these products also more effective. Studies has shown that L-Lysine combined with a DHT inhibitor can for example promote hair growth in people suffering from androgenetic alopecia.


Considering the potential to block DHT and increase aromatase adding fatty acids makes sense, only don't forget a fitness plan.

Anti-androgenic activity of fatty acids.

In this study, we show that 5alpha-reductase derived from rat fresh liver was inhibited by certain aliphatic free fatty acids. The influences of chain length, unsaturation, oxidation, and esterification on the potency to inhibit 5alpha-reductase activity were studied. Among the fatty acids we tested, inhibitory saturated fatty acids had C12-C16 chains, and the presence of a C==C bond enhanced the inhibitory activity. Esterification and hydroxy compounds were totally inactive. Finally, we tested the prostate cancer cell proliferation effect of free fatty acids. In keeping with the results of the 5alpha-reductase assay, saturated fatty acids with a C12 chain (lauric acid) and unsaturated fatty acids (oleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid) showed a proliferation inhibitory effect on lymph-node carcinoma of the prostate (LNCaP) cells. At the same time, the testosterone-induced prostate-specific antigen (PSA) mRNA expression was down-regulated. These results suggested that fatty acids with 5alpha-reductase inhibitory activity block the conversion of testosterone to 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and then inhibit the proliferation of prostate cancer cells.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19353546

Evening Primrose Oil- massage, Fibrocystic breast pain, treats hot flashes, relieves PMS symptoms, relieves Eczema, hormone balance, fights breast tumors and diabetes. Reports have GLA-Gamma-Linolenic Acid as helping with RA and arthritis, diabetic neuropathy, ADHD and CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome). And UPDATED to include it being an inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT, (DHT is bad for BOOB GROWTH).

Coconut Oil- Makes connective tissues stronger, superb antioxidant, neutralizes free radicals and slowing down aging, aids in breast feeding, nature's richest source of MCFAs. 5 ar inhibitor, aromatase



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Reishi (Ganoderma lucidum)
Red reishi, commonly known as LingZhi in Chinese, is a mushroom thought to have many health benefits. In a research study exploring the anti-androgenic effects of 20 species of mushrooms, reishi mushrooms had the strongest action in inhibiting testosterone (3). That study found that reishi mushrooms significantly reduced levels of 5-alpha reductase, preventing conversion of testosterone into the more potent DHT. High levels of DHT are a risk factor for conditions such as benign prostatatic hypertrophy (BPH), acne, and baldness.

White Peony (Paeonia lactiflora)
Chinese peony is a widely grown ornamental plant with several hundred selected cultivars. Many of the cultivars have double flowers with the stamens modified into additional petals. White peony has been important in traditional Chinese medicine and has been shown to affect human androgen levels in vitro. In a 1991 study in the American Journal of Chinese Medicine Takeuchi et al described the effects of paeoniflorin, a compound found in white peony that inhibited the production of testosterone and promoted the activity of aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen (7). To date, there have been no studies that translate or explore the clinical effects.

Chaste Tree (Vitex agnus-castus)
Chaste tree (or chasteberry) is a native of the Mediterranean region and is traditionally used to correct hormone imbalances. In ancient times, it was believed to be an anaphrodisiac, hence the name chaste tree. Clinical studies have demonstrated effectiveness of medications produced from extract of the plant in the management of premenstrual syndrome (PMS) and cyclical mastalgia (14). The mechanism of action is presumed to be via dopaminergic effects resulting in changes of prolactin secretion from the anterior pituitary. At low doses, it blocks the activation of D2 receptors in the brain by competitive binding, causing a slight increase in prolactin release. In higher concentrations, the binding activity is sufficient to reduce the release of prolactin (15).

Reduction in prolactin levels affects FSH and estrogen levels in females and testosterone levels in men. There is as yet no information regarding its efficacy in endocrine disease states such as PCOS, however, one small-scale study has demonstrated this prolactin reducing effect in a group of healthy males, and the implication is that it could be of use in mild hyperprolactinemia (16, 17). One could also theorize that it could be refined for use as a male contraceptive, because testosterone reduction should reduce libido and sperm production. This topic is further explored in a review by Grant & Anawalt (18).



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...10-497.pdf

http://endometabol.com/?page=article&article_id=3644

[MonikaT]

I've had no luck finding white peony as a supplement. I can only seem to find teas, and I don't want to mess with teas.

You might also want to look into DIM. http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

[Lotus]

Good idea, if where promoting the effects estrogen this could only be beneficial once in the liver.

Both men and women produce estrogen. Estrogens perform beneficial activities in the human body for both sexes; however, how the body metabolizes (breaks down) estrogen is significant for continued good health.

DIM (diindolylmethane) is a natural organic compound that promotes healthy estrogen metabolism in men and women as well as increasing the body’s natural ability to burn fat. DIM is a phytochemical naturally found in small amounts in cruciferous vegetables such as cabbage, cauliflower, and broccoli and that has subsequently been synthesized into a convenient, easy-to-swallow pharmaceutical grade nutritional supplement.

Supplementation of DIM promotes the effective metabolism of estrogen by helping the body turn estradiol into helpful metabolites. These helpful metabolites can aid the body in resisting uncontrolled cell growth and the formation of tumors, effect bone health, and promote weight loss by encouraging healthy levels of the hormones that activate enzymes to stimulate lipolysis—the release of stored fat. Properly balanced estrogen levels are instrumental in general hormonal health and well-being.

Choosing the Right DIM Supplement
As DIM is poorly absorbed by the body be sure to use a microencapsulated DIM, a patented formulation which enhances absorption and assimilation.

Healthy estrogen metabolism begins in the liver. It’s vital that you supply your liver cells with the nutrients it needs in order to accomplish the metabolic reactions that are required for maintaining estrogens in the correct, healthy form. When estrogen is present in the wrong form, it has been shown to increase the risk of auto-immune disease, breast, and uterine cancers1.

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolite
http://www.drcederquist.com/weight-loss-...olism.aspx
http://www.restorehc.com/healthnews/blog...en-and-men

[peggy]

Lotus, what do you think about Saw Palmetto? Does it work more anti-androgenic than e.g. Spearmint? I need a supplement that will also help with hair loss.

[jacp114]

You can get white peony as bai shao in TCM, which is an excellent way to increase aromatase(converstion of testosterone to estrogen)

Here is a link for some:
http://www.chineseherbsdirect.com/product_info.php?products_id=995&gclid=CPW8tI-g27sCFWMV7Aod4mkApw

Also, spearmint is a solid anti-androgen.

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Also, if you want to take some of this to another level, you can purchase research chems. BUT BE AWARE OF THE SIDE EFFECTS AND IMPACT!

Research chems are going to do similar things as the herbs just waaay more potent and focused. It's what they are usually derived from, and it's just one specific part of the herb segmented out and turned into a chem.

Generally a challenge for breast growth, and especially in men is going to be their testosterone converting into DHT(the most potent androgen).

Finasteride and it's powerful cousin Dutasteride both inhibit 5ar, which is what converts testosterone to DHT. This has been a treatment for men going bald and has worked, but as a side effect many men have noticed their sex drive drop, gynecomastia(BREAST GROWTH), and other feminization. With less 5ar, all the testerone gets converted to estrogen.

Flutamide also is a major antiandrogen, and a side effect is breast growth when given to men.
Spironolactone is also an anti-androgen, and you can get it topically fairly easily. I imagine you could apply this to your breasts.

Bicalutamide blocks androgen receptors. Here is a quick excerpt from wikipedia:
Blockade of androgens receptors by bicalutamide in the brain will eliminate the negative feedback loop of testosterone on the release of luteinizing hormone (LH). This in turn will lead to a dramatic increase in testosterone and estrogen levels. Bicalutamide treatment will block the effects of rising testosterone levels, but the effect of rising estrogen levels will remain unopposed and lead to feminizing effects, the most notable one being gynecomastia, which is often painful.

Also in my research I've found there is a huge link between insulin, IGF, estrogen and breast growth/feminization. I'm not exactly sure, but just watching the womens forum, this forum and the research papers I read, it seems like there is something missing with just maxing out the estrogens.

I think the link between growth hormone, insulin and estrogens is most highlighted in macromastia cases. This shows up though with the use of Bovine ovaries, which is why I think it worked so well for Cheryll.

Still doing research though.

Just throwing this out there. I'll probably do a post with the list of herbs, chems, etc that I have worked out.

[Lotus]

Hi Peggy,
Do you have an iron deficiency?

Iron supplements. In some women, iron deficiency could be a cause of hair loss. Your clinician may test your iron level, particularly if you're a vegetarian, have a history of anemia, or have heavy menstrual bleeding. Iron supplements are recommended if a woman's iron level is less than 70 nanograms per milliliter. However, there's no reliable evidence that iron supplementation is helpful for female pattern hair loss.

What kind off hair loss are you experiencing?
Patterns of female hair loss

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter...-hair-loss
Clinicians use the Ludwig Classification to describe female pattern hair loss. Type I is minimal thinning that can be camouflaged with hair styling techniques. Type II is characterized by decreased volume and noticeable widening of the mid-line part. Type III describes diffuse thinning, with a see-through appearance on the top of the scalp.

One of the more documented uses of saw palmetto for women is the treatment of hirsutism, a condition in which women have excessive hair growth. Many of these women also have high levels of androgens, male sex hormones. The hair growth tends to follow the same patterns on the body as typical male hair growth, such as the upper lip, breasts, and the back. A standardized extract of saw palmetto taken daily may be beneficial for providing anti-androgenic effects and treating the condition. Moreover, taking saw palmetto for hair growth is possibility beneficial for treating thinning hair on the head.

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-are-the-ben...-women.htm

Does it work more anti-androgenic than e.g. Spearmint? I need a supplement that will also help with hair loss.

It is possible that sustained daily use of spearmint tea could result in further abatement of hirsutism.In women, hirsutism and male pattern baldness are due to an enhanced effect of androgens on the hair follicle, which in turn can be caused by an increased supply of bio-available androgens and/or an increased sensitivity of the target organ to androgens.

In women, hirsutism and male pattern baldness are due to an enhanced effect of androgens on the hair follicle, which in turn can be caused by an increased supply of bio-available androgens and/or an increased sensitivity of the target organ to androgens. There are no definite correlations between circulating androgens and the degree of their biological effects. Although in most cases the hyperandrogenemia is not severe, the patients should be treated with antiandrogens in order to avoid progression of the disturbance and its consequences on metabolism and fertility. Sometimes hirsutism can be observed as a clinical sign of a defect in the steroid biosynthesis or of Cushing's syndrome. In severe hyperandrogenemia with a testosterone level of more than 2 ng/ml and a DHEA-S level of more than 8000 ng/ml, tumors of the ovaries or the adrenal glands have to be excluded.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/

Saw Palmetto for Women
Saw Palmetto for women is just as beneficial as for men. There are a host of compounds in the fruit of this plant which boost female hormonal health. They include:

Phytosterols: Beta-sitosterol, stigmasterol and campesterol are the main phytosterols.

Healthy Fatty acids: Lauric acid, oleic acid, palmitic acid and myristic acid are the main ones.

Saw Palmetto for women - the most common benefit attributed to Saw Palmetto is the inhibition of an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductase. Many women, particularly during and after menopause, suffer a lack of Testosterone. Symptoms are many, including low libido, poor sexual response, muscle weakness, lack of endurance and importantly - loss of zest for life!

5-alpha-reductase converts Testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Excessive DHT production can result in hair loss, low libido, poor sexual response and acne. By inhibiting 5-alpha-reductase, sufficient Testosterone can benefit female as well as male vitality and sexual health.
http://www.peak-health-now.com/saw-palme...women.html
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I was trying to find out about claims of SP causing cellulite but came up with observations more than fact!....sorry for the long drawn out. , I just try to get the whole picture before understanding the benefits, so yes it's beneficial. However I don't use it anymore, I don't have hair loss (knock on wood) so my goal is to aromatize whatever Testosterone I do have left floating around,lol


Closed thread in Admin:
Thanks Lilly, this was very helpful! I re-visited my research and found that saw palmetto blocks the formation of DHT, the more potent form of testosterone, so that was what I was thinking of...I am going to stick with it as it seems to have multiple benefits for me and since I do work out and eat right I think I'll be okay. I also read that it stimulates appetite, and that's the kind of info I was looking for--to say something 'causes' weight gain without saying how (i.e. makes you more lethargic, increases appetite, makes you retain water, etc.) is misleading, because those things can be counteracted. And believe me you, I am already fighting the good fight against cellulite with dry brushing, scrubbing massage with exfoliants, internal cleansing and the like, so yes, I think I'll stay on top of that. Thanks for the encouragement, I am not looking for a miracle, just slightly larger, firmer breasts. And to everyone out there, this is a great forum, I have learned so much already--don't ever forget that women are beautiful in all their varied shapes and sizes and we are harder on ourselves than men will ever be! Don't let pop culture with it's relentless depictions of huge breasts discourage you from loving your body exactly as it is... Much love to all the ladies here!
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Sorry to make your eyes bleed,lol-

read till your eyes bleed.

[Lotus]

Also in my research I've found there is a huge link between insulin, IGF, estrogen and breast growth/feminization. I'm not exactly sure, but just watching the womens forum, this forum and the research papers I read, it seems like there is something missing with just maxing out the estrogens.

Yup!, this is mostly about herbals, going to the next level and we'd be on a different forum right?

I think the link between growth hormone, insulin and estrogens is most highlighted in macromastia cases. This shows up though with the use of Bovine ovaries, which is why I think it worked so well for Cheryll.

I don't think we've seen any cases of macromastia here. In fact why would the be here?,lol

But seriously, thank you for your research, how long have you been doing NBE?

[jacp114]

Yup!, this is mostly about herbals, going to the next level and we'd be on a different forum right?

True... and I haven't seen a forum out there on that yet.

I don't think we've seen any cases of macromastia here. In fact why would the be here?,lol

But seriously, thank you for your research, how long have you been doing NBE?

I haven't been doing NBE, but my wife is and has gone up a cup (B to C) in 5 months. She also was fighting off hair loss, so I've done a lot of research into that, tried herbs and chems.
Ironically a lot of the hair growth/anti-hairloss stuff out there is anti-androgenic, and terrible for men. But great if you want to feminize, grow boobs, or keep your head of hair.

I do find myself fascinated sometimes by the guys growing breasts in here and wanted to throw in my ideas to help all of you out. In general I love breasts and big thumbs up to everyone that wants to grow them.

I'm big into hormone research, an herbalist, and take herbs for health and well being, and have side project every now and then.

On macromastia, you haven't seen any cases here yet. On some of the gyno forums though there are a few that could be close...
The point isn't the cases of macromastia, but that there is a hormonal action going on in the women that cause extreme breast enlargement. If you can mimic that hormonal atmosphere in your body, you could have the same growth. If not, figure out what is going on... rinse and repeat till you find what it is that causes breast growth.

Best of luck to you all.

[peggy]

Lotus, thanks for your reply. My iron level (ferritin) is fine since some years. I am shedding hair mostly in the front area of my head and on the sides. I also have acne prone skin, so this all might be because of too much DHT. I checked my testosterone level in the past and it was fine, but never checked DHT.

So not sure if I should try saw palmetto, or maybe black cohosh (this is what I have @home). Heard black cohosh can help with hair fall too.

[Lotus]

Ironically prior to your post I was thinking of body builders,

Not just for the fact of the countless benefits but for the science behind it. Think of it, their doing everything from promoting there amino-acids to maximizing there metabolism.

So for me it's all about maximizing the benefits of NBE, researching is the key, I'll read till my eyes bleed,lol.

That's great about your wife, what's been her success?

Your contributions are welcomed, pursuing NBE isn't a prerequisite, being an herbalist is beneficial too, since most of us (me) are part-time amateur practitioners,lol

Next on my list was Nettle Root, i can't be sure if it's an androgen or anti-androgen yet, on my Health/Diet post I talk about it here http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=17291&page=5 post #46

What are your thoughts about NR?