[flamesabers]

Your clarification makes a lot of sense to me. If I wanted to be more expressive of my female side in public, I would do the same. It's like Flamesabers is doing, right? I still have a hard time understanding exactly how it's done. I think I remember you, Doodle, saying that you applied a bit of eye liner which brought on some tentative remarks (a la: "My, you look different somehow, Doodle! Have you lost weight?"). Is that the kind of thing you will be exploring more and more? As things progress, assuming they do, how will you feel when at some point you are (mis)read as a woman? i.e., someone refers to you as "ma'am"? Or, maybe you never want to carry it that far?

I think there are multiple ways to express your female side in public. As Doodle mentioned, one way may be embracing others calling you girly or something. I do the same. Perhaps it may sound strange, but I think someone has to get to know me in real life before he or she would suspect that something is different with me. My developing breasts may be an obvious clue, but some may simply dismiss it as moobs or a symptom of some weird medical condition. My lack of a male ego may be a more decisive hint for some.

Hello all,

One of the greatest strengths of this forum is that it IS a form of group therapy. Even if it isn't in real-time. This is a place where we can truly and freely express our feelings. While I do see a professional therapist I get just as much benefit listening to everyone else. We are all going through similiar stuff at some level.

I continue to struggle finding the balance between my personal desires and my commitment to my family. How do I reconcile my one vision of a future family vacations with my desire to feminize my body? How will my relationship with my children be effected if I follow through with growing breast when they are grown?

While my wife knows about my GID she doesn't understand it. How could she? And where would that leave us.

How would breast effect my job prospects (I am a personal fitness trainer). Would my clients leave? What would be the reaction in the locker room?

So thank you,

Balancing your personal desires with your family commitment sounds difficult to say the least. Ideally your family will be supportive and accepting of your desires. As to how your children will react, who knows? I think it depends on their personalities, how they see the world and how open-minded they are about matters such as gender identity.

In regards to your job prospects, I think it all comes down to who your clientele is. Are they close-minded and macho? Or do they seem like good-hearted people who don't condemn others for being different? With your particular profession, I think an important issue to consider is whether people will think you're on steroids. If I recall correctly, breast development in males is a side-effect of some steroids. I don't know if this would be a problem for you or not.

[Marina Kits]

I remember you, Doodle, saying that you applied a bit of eye liner which brought on some tentative remarks (a la: "My, you look different somehow, Doodle! Have you lost weight?"). Is that the kind of thing you will be exploring more and more? As things progress, assuming they do, how will you feel when at some point you are (mis)read as a woman? i.e., someone refers to you as "ma'am"? Or, maybe you never want to carry it that far?

I hope you don't mind the probing questions.

CK

"give her an inch and she'll take a mile" ...I'm not sure what will happen as I give more and more freedom to the girl inside. Women's jeans a few months ago... now a tiny bit of eyeliner. ...I struggle with wanting to be an attractive woman but there's this unavoidable line in the sand that I know I can't cross. ...I may find myself drifting across it almost unwillingly. My hope is that someday I'm able to appear female or male by the clothing I choose so if I'm ever mistaken for a woman, I think I will bust out in tears on the spot having been validated as a female by a stranger. It would be a dream come true but I'm just not sure it could ever happen. ...A little online therapy going on here for me.

It's been really tough for me here in Nashville the last several days. We always go out in the evenings to relax and this is the kind of environment where everyone looks nice (especially the GG's) every night of the week. It kills me inside to be around them and not be able to BE ONE of them. ...I just want to curl up in the corner and cry.

[PattiJT]

Hey Doodle, at least we tried to make you feel at home by getting some cold weather for you. Enjoy your trip!!

[SarahSchilling]

"give her an inch and she'll take a mile" ...I'm not sure what will happen as I give more and more freedom to the girl inside. Women's jeans a few months ago... now a tiny bit of eyeliner. ...I struggle with wanting to be an attractive woman but there's this unavoidable line in the sand that I know I can't cross. ...I may find myself drifting across it almost unwillingly. My hope is that someday I'm able to appear female or male by the clothing I choose so if I'm ever mistaken for a woman, I think I will bust out in tears on the spot having been validated as a female by a stranger. It would be a dream come true but I'm just not sure it could ever happen. ...A little online therapy going on here for me.

It's been really tough for me here in Nashville the last several days. We always go out in the evenings to relax and this is the kind of environment where everyone looks nice (especially the GG's) every night of the week. It kills me inside to be around them and not be able to BE ONE of them. ...I just want to curl up in the corner and cry.

Aww...you'll be ok doodle. I know exactly where you're coming from. GGs have it way too easy. The struggles we deal with will make us better people in the long run though, right? ;p

Btw, what color eyeliner do you wear? I can't pull off black at all without attracting a serious amount of unwanted attention in my current locale, so I'm curious. Can pull off foundation/powder/eye shadow/a little blush much easier. Black eyeliner or mascara are gonna have to wait til I move though, I think lol

[AnnieBL]

Late as usual. I've been a bit taken up with other things the last few days (spent much of yesterday at the airport in a futile effort to get to Toronto to collect my jeep). I had been thinking that if nobody else did I needed to start a thread in this welcome new sub-forum. Thank you Flamesabers, and thank you everybody else. Between you'll, you've said much of what I'd like to have said, and much better than I could have said it.

A few things though, probably rather confused.

I have been increasingly coming around to the view that I should not be trying to ask myself 'how far is my gender identity female?', but rather"as a male, how far is my GI not male, and what am I not experiencing through not mentally being fully either male or female?'. Some of the answers to the first leg of the question I have known at least subconsciously for a long time, but my attempts at experiencing at least some aspects of femininity were at least until recently less successful, and involved some things that, as noted by others in this thread, that I am not comfortable discussing even here.

Discovery that there was a real possibility of growing breasts offered a means to my end, i.e. feeling like a woman in at least some respect, and that was the mental effect I was seeking. Breast development was however only a means to that end. As it happened, the effect of pharmaceuticals prescribed to me for other purposes has had further physical effects which have destroyed my conventional physical male function so that I am (at least beneath outer clothes) much less male than before, and I am beginning to place much more importance on the wider mental effects of what I am putting into my body, and the physical effects that are manifesting themselves.

I have always been mistrustful of my own perceived motivations, but I believe that I am seeking to bring my physical body more in line with my gender. Although some of the changes that have been brought about by prescriptions for other purposes, I may have somewhat connived in permitting or even wanting what they have done to me in addition to what I have tried to do deliberately. In both cases the mental effects have turned out to be an unexpected major factor, not least through the anxiolytic effects of the natural and artificial substances I have been taking. I can't say that I have got as far as feeling comfortable with expressing my gender, whatever it is, in public, but at least I am not bothered by having become physically a bit different.

[GoneGirl]

...I struggle with wanting to be an attractive woman but there's this unavoidable line in the sand that I know I can't cross. ...I may find myself drifting across it almost unwillingly. My hope is that someday I'm able to appear female or male by the clothing I choose so if I'm ever mistaken for a woman, I think I will bust out in tears on the spot having been validated as a female by a stranger. It would be a dream come true but I'm just not sure it could ever happen. ...A little online therapy going on here for me.

It's been really tough for me here in Nashville the last several days. We always go out in the evenings to relax and this is the kind of environment where everyone looks nice (especially the GG's) every night of the week. It kills me inside to be around them and not be able to BE ONE of them. ...I just want to curl up in the corner and cry.

Doodle, I can understand your feelings perfectly. My only advantage over you is that I've got fewer years ahead of me to suffer. On the other hand, you have the advantage over me that you're young enough to carry off a full transition if it becomes necessary. Oh, yeah, maybe you wouldn't look like the girl of your crossdreams, but with a little work, I bet you'd make a damn good looking dame.

My wife and I were talking recently about how our lives would be different today if I had 'discovered' my deeply suppressed female gender back when we first started dating (I was 32 years old then). I had all the classic symptoms of a full blown crossdreamer (e.g., wanting to take the female role in bed). How do you act like a real man if you've got the innards of a woman?

She stuck with me, thankfully, but "What if I had wanted to transition to living as a woman back then?" I asked. "Would you have stuck with me?" Even she couldn't answer that question. She could only say that she would hope so.

We have a good relationship. In so many ways we are one. I guess that's as close to true femininity as I'll ever get.

CK

[Jessica Leigh]

No worries about my clients thinking I'm on 'roids , PEDs, maybe. I'm a cyclist and spinning instructor and 155 soaking wet - well before the holidays.

Your clarification makes a lot of sense to me. If I wanted to be more expressive of my female side in public, I would do the same. It's like Flamesabers is doing, right? I still have a hard time understanding exactly how it's done. I think I remember you, Doodle, saying that you applied a bit of eye liner which brought on some tentative remarks (a la: "My, you look different somehow, Doodle! Have you lost weight?"). Is that the kind of thing you will be exploring more and more? As things progress, assuming they do, how will you feel when at some point you are (mis)read as a woman? i.e., someone refers to you as "ma'am"? Or, maybe you never want to carry it that far?

I think there are multiple ways to express your female side in public. As Doodle mentioned, one way may be embracing others calling you girly or something. I do the same. Perhaps it may sound strange, but I think someone has to get to know me in real life before he or she would suspect that something is different with me. My developing breasts may be an obvious clue, but some may simply dismiss it as moobs or a symptom of some weird medical condition. My lack of a male ego may be a more decisive hint for some.

Hello all,

One of the greatest strengths of this forum is that it IS a form of group therapy. Even if it isn't in real-time. This is a place where we can truly and freely express our feelings. While I do see a professional therapist I get just as much benefit listening to everyone else. We are all going through similiar stuff at some level.

I continue to struggle finding the balance between my personal desires and my commitment to my family. How do I reconcile my one vision of a future family vacations with my desire to feminize my body? How will my relationship with my children be effected if I follow through with growing breast when they are grown?

While my wife knows about my GID she doesn't understand it. How could she? And where would that leave us.

How would breast effect my job prospects (I am a personal fitness trainer). Would my clients leave? What would be the reaction in the locker room?

So thank you,

Balancing your personal desires with your family commitment sounds difficult to say the least. Ideally your family will be supportive and accepting of your desires. As to how your children will react, who knows? I think it depends on their personalities, how they see the world and how open-minded they are about matters such as gender identity.

In regards to your job prospects, I think it all comes down to who your clientele is. Are they close-minded and macho? Or do they seem like good-hearted people who don't condemn others for being different? With your particular profession, I think an important issue to consider is whether people will think you're on steroids. If I recall correctly, breast development in males is a side-effect of some steroids. I don't know if this would be a problem for you or not.

[Marina Kits]

Btw, what color eyeliner do you wear? I can't pull off black at all without attracting a serious amount of unwanted attention in my current locale, so I'm curious. Can pull off foundation/powder/eye shadow/a little blush much easier. Black eyeliner or mascara are gonna have to wait til I move though, I think lol

Sarah,
WHEN I use it (which isn't that often) and if I plan on being out in public, I use a CHARCOAL eyeliner. Keep it sharp and very tight to the bottom lashes then blend it down a little with a Q-Tip. It just creates the illusion that I have lower lashes, nothing more. Black is way too dramatic but I'll play with it if I'm staying home.

If you really want to have some fun, get some Maybelline eye studio gel eyeliner. Use it on the pink ledge between your eye lashes and actual eye along with black mascara and the charcoal eye liner mentioned above. Use eye shadow as you normally would. It's sooo amazing! It really makes your eyes pop but it's very obvious and undeniably feminine.

Thanks all others for your "hugs" ...and the cold weather (Patti) which made me feel so much at home here ...because we Minnesotan's just hate warmth!?!

[PattiJT]

Doodle,
I grew up in South Dakota. Farm girl. Still, I will happily send you all the cold weather you can handle!! My brother outside of Preston, Minnesota would be glad if you accepted his share of the winter weather as well. Be really nice if you took ours back with you when head home!! Thanks ahead of time. Patti

[Samantha Rogers]

Wow, I missed this thread entirely and suddenly it is three pages long. So I was reading along, and, well honestly? I was a little disappointed and a little ... dare I say it? ...a little bored.
"Here we go again" I was thinking, "Here's another thread about what we call ourselves and about how to parse which name and which label and so on and so on" And, ok, hate me if you must (I get that some, and I can handle it) But, honestly, who cares?
Trans-this, trans-that.... Isn't all that verbiage more for the therapists and lab coats who try to figure us all out and then write about us for their peer reviewed studies? Personally, I just don't care for labels at all. I come here not for that at all. No, I come here, and have been coming here for a long time now, for just two reasons. I come here for information about herbal breast boosting, that is for sure. But, and this was not always the case, I also come here to be in a place where I fit.
Look, we are all here because for one reason or another, and to one degree or another, we all find ourselves somewhere along a line that heads away from "normal" (whatever normal means...heh heh heh). Some of us drop by for awhile and then give it up and drift away. Others, like this old girl, hang around for years, coming back regularly because... honestly... Because coming here makes us feel less alone. Am I right? In this crazy world that isn't how we would wish it to be and where it is very difficult to be whomever we might fervently wish to be.... it can be lonely, right? I honestly love all you crazy strange mixed up people. I love the humor and the friendships and the fellowship. I even love the little squabbles now and then. And when each of you disappear, I miss you. I really do.
I mean, really... Where does a genetic guy trying to grow breasts go for fellowship? It isn't on Craigs list. Not too many choices, I warrant.
And that's why I come here girls and boys. Because you folks make me feel as though I am not the only one going through this. You make me feel as though I am not, in fact, alone.
So, thanks.
Though, truth be told, (heh heh) I bet I am speaking for a lot of you.

Anyway, so I was glad when the thread turned to how we express our particular selves and our particular point on the road to where ever. Yes, by all means, let's talk about that! Yes, let's talk about what to wear! Or makeup! Or shoes! Let's talk about aspirations and dreams. Let's talk about who broke our heart and whose heart we broke. Let's talk about heartache and pain and joy and fun (and sex, too, for those of you whose parts still work... Heh heh heh) That's the good stuff. That's the stuff that keeps us coming back. And after that we can go back to exercising our eyes and brains with a trip into one of dear Lotus' many wonderful informational links. That's the stuff we are here for, isn't it? Let the shrinks worry about what to call us, eh?
Love to you all!